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Found 23 results

  1. I know a lot of you are waiting for the new updated Land Matters Mining Claims Maps. That update should have been available on Monday but the BLM is having some technical difficulties with its Secure Transfer Server and we have been unable to update the active mining claims information on our maps. Our contact at the BLM says the problem has been identified and should be corrected tonight. We should be able to access the data in the morning. I know this is a critical map update for a lot of our users. I'll post here as soon as the maps are updated.
  2. Pyrite?

    I have never been prospecting and have never read anything of the forum about fools gold or pyrite. Have you ever found any? How does the detector react when you sweep across it? Any stories to tell?
  3. Guys, what is the validity of claims not filed annually at the county level? I have seen a few claims that are current at BLM, but the owners do not file notices of intent to hold, or affidavits of assessment work at their local county recorders. My understanding was the county level recording is just as important as the BLM filing, yet some people seem to only file their annual renewals with BLM. What gives?
  4. It's that time again. The August 31 deadline to make your required annual mining claims filings is only a month away. As she does every year Ruby has compiled general guidelines and a graphic flow chart to help claim owners understand their annual obligations. If you are confused about the process or just want a refresher review these could help make the process clearer. These are a free PDF download. Feel free to share, distribute or print these out as long as you retain the attribution. General Guidelines Flow Chart Whatever you do don't be late. You will lose your claim if your filings aren't on time.
  5. I was doing a quick search of gold mine sales in Australia to suss out the market. Came across this gold mine sales mob who have cut and copied my gumtree ads and added random pictures??wtf http://www.goldminesales.com.au/index.php/component/osproperty/hillview-gold-project-wa This is a hard rock mine I own that they have listed as an alluvial mine. Disturbingly it has 175 views and god knows how many people have been tricked thinking the ads are real. I have sent enquiries in but have not recieved responses yet. We try very hard to provide a quality service with our lease sales and am pretty pissed about someone taking potential customers for a ride.
  6. Northlander #2 Claim

    Hello! I'm thinking of going out to Northlander #2 on Sunday, and I'm looking at google maps and have a few questions for anyone who may have been there before. I'm looking at google street view and seeing that there are two options to get to the claim...one is a dirt kind of pull off thing and another one is a gate. Which one is the actual entrance? If it is the gated entrance, is there a way to get in? Is it unlocked for GPAA members? (I am one) or do you have to contact someone? Thanks so much!
  7. Another question via email, with personal references removed. I prefer to answer these on the forum so everyone gets the benefit of the answer plus others can offer their opinions also. "I am new to metal detecting and, your site here has really helped me out. I have a couple questions that maybe you can help me out with. What are some of the geologic indicators that you look for to determining where to prospect for nuggets? I try to study some of the geology maps but I could use some further pinpointing. I have also been looking at the National map of Surficial Mineralogy. Using the aster and minsat7 maps what are some of the indicators that may point you to higher gold bearing ground? Any help would be deeply appreciated. Could you point me to some old places where you have found gold? I'm not asking to be shown active patches. Just areas that you feel are worked out. I just want to see what gold bearing ground looks like. This would help me to start to learn the commonalities and characteristics of gold bearing grounds. Still looking for that first nugget! Thanks again for any info you can provide." My method is much simpler than that. I basically look for gold where gold has been found before. Think of it like fishing. If you want to go catch salmon you have two options. You can go to where people have caught salmon before - pretty good odds here. Or you can go where nobody has ever caught a salmon before. Very poor odds! So call it prospecting using history to determine where gold has been found before, and then getting as close as I can to those places. History and proximity. Finally, I may then employ geology to narrow that search in a given area if it turns out the gold is confined to certain rock types. The first place I normally turn as a rough guide to any new location in the U.S. is: Principal Gold Producing Districts Of The United States USGS Professional Paper 610 by A. H. Koschmann and M. H. Bergendahl - A description of the geology, mining history, and production of the major gold-mining districts in 21 states. This 1968 publication obviously lacks the latest production figures but it still is a great overview to where an individual prospector can look for gold in the United States. It is a 283 page pdf download so be patient. Pay particular attention to the listed references in the extensive bibliography for doing further research. You can download this at http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/0610/report.pdf and find many more useful free books on this website at the Metal Detecting & Prospecting Library So just for fun let's say I want to go look for gold in New Mexico. The section on New Mexico starts on page 200 and here is a quick summary of the opening paragraphs: "The gold-producing districts of New Mexico are distributed in a northeastward-trending mineral belt of variable width that extends diagonally across the State, from Hidalgo County in the southwest corner to Colfax County along the north-central border. From 1848 through 1965 New Mexico is credited with a gold production of about 2,267,000 ounces; however, several million dollars worth of placer gold was mined prior to 1848. Mining in New Mexico began long before discoveries were made in any of the other Western States (Lindgren and others, 1910, p. 17-19; Jones, 1904, p. 8-20). The copper deposits at Santa Rita were known and mined late in the 18th century, and placer gold mining began as early as 1828 in the Ortiz Mountains south of Santa Fe. In 1839 placer deposits were discovered farther south along the foot of the San Pedro Mountains. The earliest lode mining, except the work at Santa Rita, dates back to 1833 when a gold-quartz vein was worked in the Ortiz Mountains. In 1865 placers and, soon afterward, quartz lodes were found in the White Mountains in Lincoln County; in 1866 placer deposits were discovered at Elizabethtown in Colfax County, and silver-lead deposits were discovered in the Magdalena Range in Socorro County. In 1877 placers and gold-quartz veins were found at Hillsboro, and in 1878 phenomenally rich silver ore was found at Lake Valley in Sierra County. The mineral belt of New Mexico is in mountainous terrain that lies between the Colorado Plateau on the northwest and the Great Plains on the east. It is a zone of crustal disturbance in which the rocks were folded and faulted and intruded by stocks, dikes, and laccoliths of monzonitic rocks. Deposits of copper, lead, zinc, gold, and silver occur locally throughout this belt. Some deposits of copper and gold are Precambrian in age, but most of the ore deposits are associated with Upper Cretaceous or Tertiary intrusive rocks. The gold placers were probably derived from the weathering of these deposits. In later Tertiary time lavas spread out over wide areas of the State, and fissures within these rocks were later mineralized. These fissure veins are rich in gold and silver, but in most places they are relatively poor in base metals. In New Mexico, 17 districts in 13 counties yielded more than 10,000 ounces of gold each through 1957 (fig.19). Figure 19 is a handy map showing us where you want to look in New Mexico and also where looking is probably a waste of time. Click for larger version. The map shows what the text said "The mineral belt of New Mexico is in mountainous terrain that lies between the Colorado Plateau on the northwest and the Great Plains on the east." Sticking to this area is going to be your best bet. Based just on this map I see two areas of general interest - the central northern area, and the southwestern corner of the state. The text mentions that placer deposits were discovered at Elizabethtown in Colfax County, and the map shows that as the Elizabethtown-Baldy mining district. Following along in the text we find this: "The placer deposits along Grouse and Humbug Gulches, tributaries of Moreno Creek, each yielded more than $1 million in placer gold and silver. Another $2 million worth of placer gold and silver was recovered from the valleys of Moreno and Willow Creeks (Anderson, 1957, p. 38-39), and some gold also came from the gravels along Ute Creek. Graton (in Lindgren and others, 1910, p. 93) estimated the placer production of the Elizabethtown-Baldy district prior to 1904 at $2.5 million, and C. W. Henderson (in U. S. Bureau of Mines, 1929, pt. 1, p. 7 40) estimated the production through 1929 at about $3 million (145,138 ounces). The total placer production through 1959 was about 146,980 ounces." The reference material from the passage above is in the back of the book and is where we can get real details. Google is our friend. This stuff used to take me lots of visits to libraries! Anderson, E. C., 1957, The metal resources of New Mexico and their economic features through 1954: New Mexico Bur. Mines and Mineral Resources Bull. 39, 183 p. Lindgren, Waldemar, Graton, L. C., and Gordon, C. H., 1910, The ore deposits of New Mexico: U.S. Geol. Survey Prof. Paper 68, 361 p. Henderson, C. W., 1932, Gold, silver, copper, lead, and zinc in New Mexico: U.S. Bur. Mines, Mineral Resources U.S., 1929, pt. 1, p. 729-759. That is more than enough, but let's also Google placer gold new mexico Lots of great links there, but two jump out: Placer Gold Deposits of New Mexico 1972 USGS Bulletin 1348 by Maureen G. Johnson Placer Gold Deposits in New Mexico by Virginia T. McLemore, New Mexico Bureau of Mines and Mineral Resources May 1994 Notice the source of the last one. Most states with much mining have a state agency involved that can be a good source of information and in this case it is the New Mexico Bureau of Mines and Mineral Resources. That last one is a real gem and contains this passage: "All known placer deposits in New Mexico occur in late Tertiary to Recent rocks and occur as alluvial-fan deposits, bench or terrace gravel deposits, river bars, stream deposits (alluvial deposits), or as residual placers formed directly on top of lode deposits typically derived from Proterozoic, Cretaceous, and Tertiary source rocks (eluvial deposits). During fluvial events, large volumes of sediment containing free gold and other particles are transported and deposited in relatively poorly sorted alluvial and stream deposits. The gold is concentrated by gravity in incised stream valleys and alluvial fans in deeply weathered highlands. Most placer gold deposits in New Mexico are found in streams or arroyos that drain gold-bearing lode deposits, typically as quartz veins. The lode deposits range in age from Proterozoic to Laramide to mid-Tertiary (Oligocene-Miocene) (Table 2). There are some alluvial deposits distal from any obvious source terrains (Table 2). Eluvial deposits are common in many districts; some of the larger deposits are in the Jicarilla district." So now we have a lifetime of ideas on where to go and a basic idea of the geology. And an even better map! Click for larger version. Let's look for specific site information. 1. Go to http://westernmininghistory.com/mines 2. Click on New Mexico Mines 3. Click on Colfax County Mines 4. Click on Elizabethtown - Baldy District Here you will find basic site information, references, and a zoomable map with alternate satellite view. An alternate site... 1. Go to https://thediggings.com/usa 2. Click on Browse All States 3. Click on New Mexico 4. Click on Browse All Counties 5. Click on Colfax At this point note you can browse mining claim information or deposit information. Researching mining claims, land ownership, etc. is another topic but here is one source of mining claim location information. For now.... 6. Click on Browse All Deposits or Use The Interactive Map 7. Click on Elizabeth - Baldy A little more detail than the previous site, including this note "SOME FAIRLY COARSE NUGGETS IN WILLOW, UTE, SOUTH PONIL CREEKS, GROUSE AND HAMBURG GULCHES, MORENO RIVER" One more... 1. Go to https://www.mindat.org/loc-3366.html 2. Way down at bottom click on New Mexico 3. Way down at bottom click on Colfax County From here you can dig into all kinds of specific site information but the navigation is a real mess. Have fun! Historic claim staking activity can be a clue. You can get the Big Picture by looking at Mine Claim Activity on Federal Lands for the period 1976 through 2010 OK, that really should have answered your question. As far as places I have been, they are nearly all in Alaska and can be found here Now, I did all the above from scratch with no real prior information on New Mexico in about 2 hours. You can do the same for any state. However, finding where the gold is really is the easy part. The hardest part by far is finding out who controls the land and getting proper permission for access. In Alaska everything is covered by thick ground cover, so opportunities for metal detecting are strictly at creek level, and nearly always claimed. The process there is simple - find out who owns the claims and get permission for access. In most of the western U.S. there is far less or no ground cover, and so getting in the vicinity of and searching around or near mining claims without being on them is a far more viable option than in Alaska. Or you can try and get permission to access the properties. You still need to be able to track down property locations and owners however. For private property I subscribe to and use OnXMaps for my PC, Google Earth, iPad, and iPhone. It quickly maps private property and gives you access to tax roll information about the owners. Tracking down mining claims is easy in the big picture and harder in the details. The Diggings referenced before has interactive claims maps. I subscribe to Minecache for their Google Earth overlay. However, the most comprehensive source with the deepest repository of Land Ownership information is Land Matters. They have online claim mapping with direct links to claims owner information. Note that all online sources have a lag time between the actual staking of a claim on the ground and when it reaches the online systems, if ever. I say if ever because some claims exist solely at the county or state levels and there is no good way to find them short of visiting local recorder's offices or eyeballs on the ground. Prior thread on finding claims information. Finally, I am not an expert by any means. This is just how I go about it, but any tips, hints, advice, or information anyone is willing to share on this thread is very welcome!!
  8. Prospecting can be profitable, but there is more than one way to make money in the prospecting game beyond just finding gold. Leasing out prospective claims to mining companies is a subject I have written about several times in the ICMJ and also in my book on prospecting. I know people who have made big money doing this - a lot more than this check. Its a serious effort to find claims mining companies want. Right now, the market to lease them off is not good. I am publishing this check with critical areas blanked out for security reasons - it would be a waste try to copy it. I also greatly altered the colors of the check, the company who issued it is out of business and I am guessing there is no significant money that is left in their account. So all things considered, I figure its safe to show. As one can see from the date, the issue was two years ago in 2015. I'll get my 2017 payment in a few weeks from a different company.
  9. Is there a way to search land records/claims by owner's name? I have a friend who is looking for where his grandfather's claim was many years ago. I know it's somewhere on the Kenai Peninsula, but that's about all we know. Thanks!
  10. Nevada Closed Claims

    The Nevada BLM closed 8,195 claims between January 15th and February 1st. That's nearly 194,000 acres opened to location in two weeks. Most of those claims were held by the big mining companies - Kinross, Barrick. Some of these claims go back to 1893. Of course you would already know that and have an individual map of each of those 8,195 claims section areas if you are a Claims Advantage Member. This is an unusual number of closures in such a short period of time even for Nevada, the biggest mining State by far. Annual turnover in Nevada mining claims is about 20,000 claims so this could be just an unusually productive period for the Nevada BLM in updating their case files. Why the big mining companies are dumping so many claims is a matter of speculation since I don't sit in on their board or management meetings. This may just be a blip in reporting. In any case I'll leave the speculation to others. Probably more important is where these closed claims are. That answer will probably produce a flurry of prospecting as soon as the weather permits. Go get u sum
  11. I am doing up a more detailed coverage of this for the ICMJ, but I want to post at least a little on this here: I've gotten several contacts in the last month from folks who have bought claims through ebay or by other means over the internet. These are people who don't know much of anything about mining or claims or anything else. They make old weird beard on Gold Rush look like a know-it-all mining genius. They ask me for help in recovering the millions and millions of $$$$$$$$ they just know are on their claim. I've also been contacted by folks who have filed legitimate claims and had encounters with these folks who stake over their valid claims to sell them to the inexperienced. Now don't get me wrong, it is totally legitimate to stake and then sell a mining claim. it's totally legal to stake a claim with the idea that you might sell or lease the claim to another person. No problem there. The problem is mis-leading your buyers with things that just really are not true. Leading your buyer to believe there is valuable ore on the claim when you have no sample data to show that is simply fraud. What they sell is more like a dream than a business - the buyer thinks something like: ooooh! Owning my own mining claim sounds so dreamy.... Those of us who have been doing this for a while are less dreamy eyed and more practical about it. I know most of the guys who regularly post have a reasonable level of experience. I post this to the new guys and those who lurk here to learn. Here are my iron clad rules about buying mining claims that you should always follow: 1. Take everything the seller says with a giant grain of salt - they want to make a sale and will tell you what you want to hear. Let the buyer beware! 2. Never buy a claim until you have the skills to go out and sample the claim and evaluate it for yourself. Until you have those skills, you have no business trying to buy a claim. 3. Never consider buying a claim until you have the knowledge needed to go out and stake your own claim independently and maintain it with the government in good standing. You will need this information to determine if the claim you are buying is valid or not. 4. Never, never buy a claim without first inspecting it on site and in person, and performing a full property evaluation for yourself as noted in No. 2 above. Buying a claim is a business decision and should be made like a business decision, not made as a daydream to seek and hope for something good.
  12. The recent post on "Lode Claims" discuss a interesting and important subject on involving lode & placer mining claims and access. Beside the good information it demonstrates just how serious miners are about their claims holdings. So make sure you get "express written permission" from the mining claim owner(s) before entering onto their claims to prospect and/or detect. A word of advice leave your pets and firearms at home and take your trash out with you. If you agree to share a portion of your finds with the owner(s) keep your word. Don't close the door for the next person. So how do you contact a claim owner(s) to get permission to prospect/detect on a open active mining claim. There are several members far more update on these BLM websites than me and will fill in most of my mistakes and omissions. This should at least get us headed down the road. Using Foxfire as the browser ( these websites are not user friendly so use the BLM Tutorial and type in information exactly as indicated per the LR2000 samples; use all Caps. For overall claim filing information and location description (lode & placer); Booklet http://www.BLM.gov On the left margin click on "What we do" then hit "more"; scroll down to the following two topics: Mining and Mineral; Mining Claims and Sites on Federal Lands. http://www.GeoCommunication.gov Click on the "Inactive map" located in the upper center of the page; you will see a tool bar along the top of the map for zooming in & out and panning. On the right margin click the "PLSS" button for bring up meridian, township, range, section grid on the inactive map; click on the +zoom in then click on the ma to move to the area (state) you want; write down the "median, township, range and section" numbers. http://www.BLM.gov/lr2000 Located on the left margin click through and read “Tutorial”, “Help Guides”, “Reference Codes” Click on “Run Reports”. Scroll down to “Public Mining Claims Reports” Click on “Pub MC Geo Index” Click the “Meridian Township Range Section *” and ” County” buttons; Click “Select Criteria” at the bottom The “Mandatory Criteria” window will pop up. Click on the “Set” button for each criteria then the “Close” after selecting or entering the information requested. “Admin State” select a state from the scroll down window; Close In “Case Disposition” select “Active”; Close The “Meridian Town Range Section” (MTRS) window has a MTRS Format sample located on the upper left; use all Caps; enter the information in the box just below “Clear Above Valves” then hit the check button. You can run more the MTRS at a time; click the “Select All” button; Close “County” select a county from the scroll down window; Close click “Run Report” Confirm your selections then click” OK” The report will include claim names, number, location by MTRS down to the NW, NE, SW, SE corner of the section per page# 10 of the BLM booklet “Mining Claims & Site on Federal Lands”. Clicking a “claim number” of any individual claims will bring the claim document; the claim owner(s) are listed by name, address and zip code; including the claim size in acres. The county “Recorders Office” of the county where the claim is located will have copy on file of the claim owner(s), address, claim size, type, and specific location in the section (booklet page#10 sample: 20 acre Placer Claim E 1/2 NE 1/4 NE 1/4 per section, township, range, meridian.) or you can just join a prospecting and/or detecting club in your area of interest. Good Luck
  13. Lode Claim

    If a claim is filed as a lode claim, can it still be detected on by someone else?
  14. The Land Matters Mining Claims Maps were updated to September 15th last Thursday. Sorry it took so long to get around to posting this up here. We also prepare the Claims Advantage reports at the same time as the claims updates and between the two there are about 20 hours put in to the update. With my paying job sometimes I run out of time to do anything but make sure the claims are updated. We have never missed a claims update so you can reasonably expect that claims will be updated on the 1st and the 15th of each month unless those days fall on a weekend. This month I made some changes to the Mining Claims Maps to make them faster and a smaller load for those on limited connections. There is a "Tip" included on the bottom right of the map window to help you get quicker page loads for these maps. Along with that tip remember that the smaller your browser mapping window the less data transferred and the quicker the map will load. Combine that with using the zoom box feature and you will cut your map load times way down. If you want to learn more ways to make your use of the maps faster and discover the hidden tricks to making really effective maps look into the documentation found by clicking the "HELP" button at the top right of each map window. August 31st marked the end of the federal mining year. We are crunching the volumes of claims data we've collected to bring you some usable information. Here's just a teaser of what is still to come: Those are the final figures on closed claims over the last year. I realize some other systems and organizations have come up with some very different numbers but I can assure you these numbers are correct. If you are associated with one of those other mapping systems or organizations and would like to know how to get the correct totals from the data feel free to PM me or contact Land Matters.
  15. Can anyone guide me on removing a non paying/performing signer from a placer claim? This person will not return calls, emails or execute a quit claim mailed to them. Thanks for any help! Chris
  16. BLM has announced the new inflation adjusted minerals fees for 2017. These only affect mining locations if you want to apply for a Mineral Patent adjudication or file a protest. Many other O&G, mineral leasing, geothermal and coal fees are being raised too. You can read the details and a lot more about new land status changes at the Land Matters NEWS page. Barry
  17. Just a reminder less than 24 hours to go. If you haven't done your annual BLM filing yet you need to get them in to your State BLM office by end of day tomorrow. 2016mcfilings.pdf 2016mcf.pdf
  18. The BLM has proposed eliminating the SMALL MINER'S WAIVER for those of us who own ten (10) or fewer mining claims. This could be extremely costly and we are the only ones who can stop this. Here is the wording that I have cut-n-pasted from the BLM's information: "The proposal also increases the annual maintenance fees under the General Mining Law of 1872 and eliminates the fee exemption for miners holding ten or fewer mining claims." So, what we need to do is contact our members of congress and specifically ask that this be removed from the BLM budget. Get everyone you know who wants to save the small mining community to do the same. Explain why you are doing so. Write original letters, send them to your representative's district offices AND to their offices in DC. Call them if you can. This has to be stopped and only we can do it. The more it costs to hang onto our legitimate claims the less they are worth. While most of us cannot operate our claims full time, we should be able to keep them without paying more and more in fees. The small miner's waiver was created to protect the "little guy" and now the BLM is trying to get rid of it so we must protect ourselves and our most powerful weapon is the written and spoken word - directly to our elected officials. PM me for more if I can help in any way. Here is a link to the BLM budget https://www.doi.gov/…/appr…/2016/highlights/upload/BH007.pdf
  19. Just a reminder: Small Miners claim holders need to have their Affadavit of Labor or their Intent to Hold County Record copies filed with the BLM State office by end of day tomorrow Wednesday December 30th. Don't be late or you will lose your claim.
  20. Here is a dilemna Ive wondered about,maybe someone can clear thisup for me. I spend 90% of my time relic hunting. I fully realize that claim ownership means you own the mineral rights. But...can I metal detect for relics/coins on someones claim without seeking their permission? The only obvious to my intent would be my choice in detector...usually a Tejon...rather than say swinging a gmt ,but saying Im coinshooting,lol. Anyone have thoughts on this? Ray
  21. The budget process under way includes some proposed changes to the mining law that claim owners or those thinking of owning claims need to be aware of. From BLM Bureau Highlights page 12 http://www.doi.gov/budget/appropriations/2016/highlights/upload/BH007.pdf "The second legislative proposal institutes a leasing pro- cess under the Mineral Leasing Act of 1920 for certain minerals—gold, silver, lead, zinc, copper, uranium, and molybdenum—currently covered by the General Mining Law of 1872. After enactment, mining for these metals on Federal lands will be governed by the new leasing process and subject to annual rental payments and a royalty of not less than five percent of gross proceeds. Half of the receipts will be distributed to the States in which the leases are located and the remaining half will be deposited in the Treasury. Existing mining claims will be exempt from the change to a leasing system. The proposal also increases the annual maintenance fees under the General Mining Law of 1872 and eliminates the fee exemption for miners holding ten or fewer mining claims. These changes will discourage speculators from holding claims that they do not intend to develop. Holders of existing mining claims for these minerals could voluntarily convert their claims to leases. The Office of Natural Resources Revenue will collect, account for, and disburse the hardrock royalty receipts." Note that these are listed under a heading as changes relating to hardrock mining reform. Without seeing the actual proposed legislation it is not clear but it would seem unlikely that this would not end up applying to all claims on federal land, including placer claims. In the future there would be no new claims, only leases, subject to leasing fees and a royalty of not less than 5% of gross receipts. This means you could lose money and still owe a royalty. Furthermore the Small Miners Exemption would be eliminated, and annual fees increased for existing claims. Before everyone goes ballistic keep in mind proposals like these have been floated for decades and so it is not a given it will come to pass. The big boys will certainly fight the leasing and royalty portions. However, they will not care about the Small Miners Exemption. If you do, you may want to dig deeper into the proposals and keep an eye on their progress. This would have a devastating impact on club ownership of claims in particular.
  22. Welcome to the Bureau of Land Management(BLM), General Land Office (GLO) Records Automation web site. We provide live access to Federal land conveyance records for the Public Land States, including image access to more than five million Federal land title records issued between 1820 and the present. We also have images related to survey plats and field notes, dating back to 1810. Due to organization of documents in the GLO collection, this site does not currently contain every Federal title record issued for the Public Land States. http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/default.aspx This site is going to eat up a vast amount of my time!
  23. Mining Patent Info

    I am looking for geological reports for a specific patented property. If I understand correctly before a patent is issued a survey has to be done and I am having difficulty finding one. Anyone know the process to obtain this kind of info?
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