The Super Hot VLF For Jewelry, Any Bargains?

[Guest]

A topic spoken of at length here and other places, please forgive me bringing it up yet again. I am looking for bang for the buck in Super Hot VLF as described in Steve's nugget detector picks. From that list the ones that look to fill out my range of metal detectors are those operating above 20kHz. Specifically, White's GMZ and GMT, Fisher GoldBug 2, and the new Makro Gold Racer. Any of these will surely work for what I want.

I wondered if other options exist that might not have come to mind or what my least cost option might be to just try this idea well enough to make it worth a more substantial investment. I have been scouring the internet looking for information on this type of detector, but there is so much marketing that the number of pages to wade through just to find good opinions has been quite a chore and the people hunting the very small things away from goldfield are not numerous. So many worry over the question of depth that sensitivity to small is less of a concern, but for me the reverse it true. That makes it swimming upstream and I could use some advice.

From what I can find, I do not see a better option than the Makro Gold Racer. Even used nugget machines on eBay are not really beating the price of a new Gold Racer. As a thing to try, I do not want to spend that much money right now. Is there a low cost option to just try the concept?

[Steve Herschbach]

This just got covered at http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/1960-micro-jewelry-hunting-detector-advice/

And http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/1952-hello-prospectors-jewelry-hunting-tips/

And http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/1932-the-holy-grail-of-park-hunting/

Fisher Intelligence, page 14 - Infinite Untapped Hunting Opportunities 

Any detector running over 40 kHz will do the trick for micro jewelry. Least expensive option will be a used White's Goldmaster 2 or Goldmaster V/SAT which should be had for close to $200 with enough eBay shopping.

You can use lower frequency less expensive options but if they can't pick up a women's gold single post ear ring than you really are not hunting micro jewelry. http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,21358,21438#msg-21438

If micro jewelry is not the concern, any good mid frequency 12 - 19 kHz unit will do the trick for regular jewelry. Most people would avoid the high frequency machines as being "too hot" on tiny aluminum. It takes a lot of micro jewelry to make up for one decent weight ring so many people would say you are better off hunting the larger stuff.

[auminesweeper]

The GMZ seems to be about the cheapest new machine but I have never used one, As I always to grab the top of that particular range/models, I am sure someone will have better Ideas than me,

Good luck,, John

[Steve Herschbach]

The GMZ lacking any ferrous discrimination should be avoided unless you like digging staples and tiny wire bits.

[Guest]

Thank you both for your replies.

Steve, I sincerely appreciate the links, A couple of them are my own threads, I will be sure to carefully read the others. Will also check into the Goldmasters, was not aware of those.

Micro jewelry is exactly the focus for this detector so over 40 kHz is exactly what I am looking at. You are quite right about many people wanting to hunt larger stuff, and your point is well taken. That is exactly what most do here including me to date, but for precisely that reason those targets are harder to come by. This may be another of my harebrained schemes, but I am hoping to starting finding again by simply changing what I look for. That is why I want to start cheap and work into it, so not much lost if it does not work out.

I have a CTX which covers the larger stuff well and recently got a Compadre to see if I could get an idea of what the CTX misses. So far, not much. But some, and what that some is leads me to believe there are nice targets too small for the CTX, maybe even for the Compadre.. What I have learned is that not all coins are found and CTX is not sensitive to really small chain type things. The Compadre finds small wire things, some chains, and some coins giving an odd signal. There does not appear to be anything special about those coins, not bent or broken or corroded, they look like ordinary poacket change. Have been digging everything to see what those odd signals are, and have been surprised to find them as coins sometimes though most turn out to be rusty small bits of iron. So a little different approach to the same thing which makes me think a little better sensitivity to small and a little better iron discrimination with a higher frequency will get it done. Foil for sure, lower value targets for sure, but maybe if some of it has stones then it will even out.

Whether it works out or does not, it is fun figuring it out. I would sincerely appreciate any thoughts any of you might have for this. 

 

 

[Steve Herschbach]

You can get a one year old GMT used with one year left on transferable warranty. Use 6 months, sell used with 6 months remaining warranty. If done right would cost you almost nothing.

Micro jewelry like any prospecting is only as good as the location. Here in Reno I do it for fun and basically dig aluminum and junk jewelry. The goal is to hit a beach where wealthy women hang out. The metal value in micro jewelry is minimal so the payoff is in the stones.

A Tiffany platinum post ear ring with 1 carat diamond - that is what micro jewelry hunting is really about. If you do not have choice locations it is just a pastime.

[Mike Hillis]

Just want to mention some features considerations...

• ferrous break point....is this hard or soft.  Most small and tiny jewelry items fall below the stated ferrous break point.  For example, if the ferrous/non-ferrous break point is 40.  Most of the really small stuff (and some stuff not so small) will fall below this point.  If you have 40 points of iron rejection and you just recovered items that responded between 32 and 40 you would be surprised at what you would find inside that ferrous reject range.  
• Can the detector be ran 'hot' at low gain settings.  Many detectors require that you max out the gain or sensitivity in order to detect these small items.  The high gain lights up everything in the ground.  When you add a high frequency to this it is like looking up at the night sky and trying to pick a blue white star out of a bunch of white stars.   A good micro jewelry detector needs to be able to run hot at low gain settings.  This allows a very tight coil footprint and allows a focused search for  small/tiny signal response.
• Are the right coil selections available.  The normal coin  and relic coils are not the best for micro jewelry hunting.  The best are the small oval concentric.  They provide the best coil foot print and discrimination ability and are the easiest  to focus, yet still get some form of acceptable ground coverage.

Just some food for thought.

HH

Mike

[Guest]

Steve and Mike, thank you for these replies, some very good points.

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

You can get a one year old GMT used with one year left on transferable warranty. Use 6 months, sell used with 6 months remaining warranty. If done right would cost you almost nothing.

Micro jewelry like any prospecting is only as good as the location. Here in Reno I do it for fun and basically dig aluminum and junk jewelry. The goal is to hit a beach where wealthy women hang out. The metal value in micro jewelry is minimal so the payoff is in the stones.

A Tiffany platinum post ear ring with 1 carat diamond - that is what micro jewelry hunting is really about. If you do not have choice locations it is just a pastime.

In regard to site selection, there are some very good beaches here. They are well known and well hunted but almost certainly not micro style. No lack of decent places to try. You have the target goal firmly in sight when you mention the Tiffany platinum 1 carat. Even an occasional target of that caliber would make it worth a try, likely there are other and slightly lesser such items to be found but how many might be found is anyone's guess. Few do it to any great extent, and it is easy to see why, the foil will be killer.

The GMT is also worth checking out. A very good detector, well respected. The lowest price on eBay at the moment is $559. So about $150 less than a new Makro Gold Racer. New ones cost more than a Gold Racer. I wonder what I am missing when looking at these prices, the Makro seems to have much better features for what I am looking at doing. If I cannot find something really cheap to work, that is likely what I will do. That would involve selling or trading off the CTX, something I really do not want to do at the moment, but it might get me an ATGold for the water also so my bases would be covered.

That is a thing I have thought about, CTX for ATGold + Makro Gold Racer package of some kind. Not sure the AT Gold would be better in the water or more sensitive to gold jewelry, but would give me the Makro Gold Racer so might be worth it.

1 hour ago, Mike Hillis said:

Just want to mention some features considerations...

• ferrous break point....is this hard or soft.  Most small and tiny jewelry items fall below the stated ferrous break point.  For example, if the ferrous/non-ferrous break point is 40.  Most of the really small stuff (and some stuff not so small) will fall below this point.  If you have 40 points of iron rejection and you just recovered items that responded between 32 and 40 you would be surprised at what you would find inside that ferrous reject range.  
• Can the detector be ran 'hot' at low gain settings.  Many detectors require that you max out the gain or sensitivity in order to detect these small items.  The high gain lights up everything in the ground.  When you add a high frequency to this it is like looking up at the night sky and trying to pick a blue white star out of a bunch of white stars.   A good micro jewelry detector needs to be able to run hot at low gain settings.  This allows a very tight coil footprint and allows a focused search for  small/tiny signal response.
• Are the right coil selections available.  The normal coin  and relic coils are not the best for micro jewelry hunting.  The best are the small oval concentric.  They provide the best coil foot print and discrimination ability and are the easiest  to focus, yet still get some form of acceptable ground coverage.

Just some food for thought.

HH

Mike

Mike, I could not agree more, you are spot on. More than most types of hunting the ferrous break point and coil selection become important if this is to be done in a serious way, and keeping the gain down a bit could make all the difference. With a good detector choice it might be possible to learn it well enough to save some of the grinding work this is likely to be.

A fella has to go a long way to be different anymore, and different is not always a good thing, but something has to change.

[Mike Hillis]

You know, you could just jump straight to the top of the heap and get a Gold Bug II and be done with the equipment part and get to hunting.  Its already a proven Micro Jewelry hunter and has a very tight ferrous/non ferrous break point that you don't have to play games with.  

If you need to see it in action you can purchase Tom Dankowski's video called, "Metal Detecting Real World Techniques Beach and Swimming Hole Hunting".  He has a section in there specific to micro jewelry hunting that would help you no end.  

HH
Mike

[Guest]

I am not so sure Gold Bug II is top of the heap anymore. Steve sold his in favor of the Makro Gold Racer, and Tom who steadfastly defended the GB II as supreme for a long time now is liking the Gold Racer Gold though I have not yet seen him recommend it as superior. When comparing the two head to head new price, the Racer Gold is about $15o cheaper while appearing to have some features I like that the Bug does not have. I have never used either one so am not in a position to compare, some time for the early adopters to chime in will be telling on that.

Given the price of used ones, even old used ones with dated tech, jumping to the top of the heap is not such a bad idea though. Even a used GMT is barely cheaper than the Makro Gold Racer. With some patience though a good deal might appear on a used GBII or GMT, if so I think either would work fine for me. I am keeping an eye open to all possibilities.

We do not seem to have a local Makro dealer, here. Not quite sure where the best place to buy one would even be.