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The Latest On The Deus V4 High Frequency Gold Coils

58 posts in this topic

Hopefully it will help  users with  the recovery for some of the artefact .I can t see myself looking at the screen every time I got a medium tone :) .I tried running the Goldbug pro on all metal using only the screen on nails carpet it drives me mad after 5 minutes and God knows my ears drum take a hit during my larking sessions as I am running the lowest discri as possible and all tones on the Deus...so discri on 0.Once again I can wait for the feedbacks .

 

 

RR

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In a nutshell you are looking at real time graphical representations of VDI numbers and signal strength. It can be done many different ways, but in general jumbled, messy responses represent trashy responses. That's about all I can offer on the subject because at the end of the day in my opinion most screen displays of this type are gimmicks that get played with and abandoned. They are only as accurate as the underlying target responses. A common refrain with the DEUS is "ignore the screen and just dig good sounding targets". That applies here in my opinion. Others may have a different take on the subject.

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7 hours ago, jasong said:

Is it the same with the Deus? What causes the non-straight (squiggly or polar-looking) plots like in the vid Steve linked or what is the interpretation of that sort of plot on a type of target that changes with movement of the target over the coil? 

Is the phase related to VDI (or whatever it's called on a Deus/V3i)? It sounds like you are describing a vector but in the vid the Deus doesn't seem to be plotting vectors since the lines are all the same magnitude. I've never used a V3i, so not sure how similar or different they are.

Deus looks to be the same as V3, maybe a little more real time. The V3 attempts to plot a single sweep over the target, which is hard to figure out without a motion sensor in the coil.

A perfectly straight tight line represents a strong single-domain eddy response. The tilt of the line is the raw phase. Close to 3 o'clock (180°) is high silver; 2 o'clock might be copper cent; 1 o'clock nickel; 12 o'clock would be salt; between 9 and 12 o'clock is iron; 9 o'clock (0°) is pure ferrite. The distance from any point on the line to the origin is the signal strength. Yes, this is a simple vector response. Most (all?) detectors map the raw phase (0-180°) into a VDI range (i.e. 0-100); there is no standard for this.

As the response balloons out into a tilted ellipse, the ballooning represents a changing phase as the coil sweeps over. Often this is simply due to a weak signal. So you can read the tightness of the response as a confidence level.

The wild responses can be due to 2 things: multi-domain eddy responses, as in the silver chains; and combined magnetic & eddy responses, as with the bottle caps. As a bottle cap enters the coil field it initially looks ferrous due to the iron content. As it goes past the center of the coil the eddy response of the flat steel dominates and so the phase at the peak amplitude of the response looks non-ferrous. Many detectors report target VDI as read at the signal peak, which is why bottle caps fool them. With the XY plot you can visually see the whole response, so bottle caps become easy to discern.

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There is an excellent thread on the subject as regards the V3i on the White's Forum, with Carl (Geotech) participating.

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Just spoke with my mate he had received the coil the propointer and the v4............and he is one of the reference regarding the deus....so far not impressed the propointer is a bit more powerful thant the garett ......i will keep u updated!

 

RR

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With the Deus I have the RC wrist mounted on left wrist I find having it there I use the screen display on most signals. Recently purchased a CTX and its target trace screen gives more useful information, just a shame it cannot be placed on a wrist band as the Deus RC can. Hopefully ver4 has this feature, tis a powerful tool. 

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Thanks, that's an informative response. I'm a bit confused at the naming as it's called both a polar plot and an XY plot (as in x-y coordinates?) which aren't the same thing, but X is also the normal symbol for reactivity yet Y is not the symbol used for resistivity so that confused me too, so it's a bit odd trying to figure out what information the plot is trying to convey having not seen this stuff before...

I understand what it's showing now after your explanation though, just a bit confused by the semantics.

6 hours ago, Geotech said:

The wild responses can be due to 2 things: multi-domain eddy responses, as in the silver chains; 

I don't understand what the domains are here. Does it have something to do with an individual eddy current setting up in each individual chain link so that there are a bunch of differently oriented counter magnetic fields caused by each of those individual eddys? Kinda like how they use laminated transformer cores so as to break up the eddy currents?

Interesting stuff, really looking forward to owning one of these Deus machines. Seems like this XY plot could be useful for city hunting but potentially misleading in the field for nugget hunting where there is chunky magnetite in the nuggets themselves but the ground (and balance) is fairly mild - would that give a squiggly response emulating junk whereas a VDI would just be based off the strongest signal (presumably the gold nugget) and read correctly as gold?

 

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1 hour ago, jasong said:

Thanks, that's an informative response. I'm a bit confused at the naming as it's called both a polar plot and an XY plot (as in x-y coordinates?) which aren't the same thing, but X is also the normal symbol for reactivity yet Y is not the symbol used for resistivity so that confused me too,

Both polar and cartesian plots can have XY axes, what they represent depends on what they represent. Technically, for a metal detector they should be the IQ axes, for the "in-phase" and "quadrature" signals. Sometimes they are called the XR axes, for reactive (X) and resistive (R). Sometimes the ferrite is on the left, sometimes on the right, and sometimes at the 12 o'clock position, depending n the preference of the engineer.

1 hour ago, jasong said:

I don't understand what the domains are here. Does it have something to do with an individual eddy current setting up in each individual chain link so that there are a bunch of differently oriented counter magnetic fields caused by each of those individual eddys? Kinda like how they use laminated transformer cores so as to break up the eddy currents?

Yes, kind of. Bent and twisted metal ends up having eddy responses with different phase angles (the metal thickness appears to vary), so the response is not homogeneous. A bent nail, or can slaw, are good examples. Jewelry can also be all over the place.

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On 2/16/2017 at 7:23 AM, Geotech said:

this is a simple vector response.

I've never really thought of these plots as a vector that changes as the coil goes over the target, but that is what it is, so the light bulb just went on. I would imagine that as gold nuggets are targets with odd shapes, varying thickness, bits of non-conductive minerals mixed in, all different sizes, etc. - that gold nuggets would commonly look a lot like can slaw on these plots.

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14 minutes ago, Reno Chris said:

I've never really thought of these plots as a vector that changes as the coil goes over the target, but that is what it is, so the light bulb just went on. I would imagine that as gold nuggets are targets with odd shapes, varying thickness, bits of non-conductive minerals mixed in, all different sizes, etc. - that gold nuggets would commonly look a lot like can slaw on these plots.

Yes, nuggets often have multi-domain eddy responses.

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