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Questions And Commentary For Tom At White's


Monte

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From http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/3331-how-low-will-they-go/?do=findComment&comment=37171

On 3/23/2017 at 6:59 AM, tboykin said:

I think it's a matter of finances for most companies. As volume in sales drops, they have to lower the price to keep the bottom line looking good. This happens when companies don't bring new products to market or constantly release "rehashes" of old tech.

The great thing about this is that as newer companies advance technology, the dinosaur brands will have to keep up. Or they will die. Just dropping the price isn't going to be enough to keep things afloat - you gotta play ball and offer something the world hasn't seen before.

It's a good thing for everyone - the aging workhorse machines become cheaper for entry-level users, and the power users get new technology to play with.

Tom,

Unfortunately I am out detecting a lot, or when home I'll be on two or three other Forums and don't monitor Steve H.'s site as much as I guess I should.  Therefore, I haven't kept up with many of your posts, but this one left me wondering a bit.

You list yourself as being "White's Media Guy" but let me ask this.  How long have you been with White's, and anything other than just doing 'media' work?  How long have you been metal detecting?  What types of detecting do you prefer to do the most (Coin & Jewelry Hunt, Beach Hunt, Relic Hunt, Electronic Prospecting, etc.)?  Have you been involved in the metal detecting industry for long, or at all, before going to work at White's?

tboykin: I think it's a matter of finances for most companies. As volume in sales drops, they have to lower the price to keep the bottom line looking good. ... Sometimes a manufacturer drops a price in order to be competitive in the market.  One example would be the Nokta FORS CoRe that had a price reduction about two years ago.  It wasn't to "keep the bottom line looking good" but a readjustment of the MSRP of a newer and very competitive model on the market.

FTP has offered the basic Teknetics T2 'Classic' at a much lower price now for about two years, and recently offered a reduced-price Fisher F75.  I don't think that "it's a matter of finances" with them, either, as these were models that started in the market in 2006, I believe, with the T2 and later the F75.  Sales have been just fine, so I think the 'price drops' were because [1] they need to be competitive on the market and [2] they just might be planning on newer models soon to replace the position these models held.

tboykin: This happens when companies don't bring new products to market or constantly release "rehashes" of old tech...."Rehashes" you say, because nothing new was brought to market?

Would that be anything like the essentially same 6000 Pro XL being unchanged but renamed the XL Pro?  How about the Classic IDX being renamed the IDX Pro?

The 'Spectrum XLT' relabeled the XLT e-series?  Introducing the Prizm series, which were poor sellers, so the color was changed to burgundy and the name of these same detectors was changed to Coinmaster?

The MXT Pro was a nice improvement of the original MXT, but less than four years ago it was 'renamed.' or 'rehashed,' the MXT 'ALL' Pro.   There were no circuitry or packaging changes, other than an 'All' sticker added to the side decals, and a move from the 950 Concentric coil to the 10" D2 DD coil that had a history of coil failures and/or poor performance.

Seems like there has been a lot of 'rehashes' over the past seventeen years or so do in Sweet Home. 

tboykin: The great thing about this is that as newer companies advance technology, the dinosaur brands will have to keep up. Or they will die. Just dropping the price isn't going to be enough to keep things afloat - you gotta play ball and offer something the world hasn't seen before.... "New Companies" would include Makro Detector, Nokta Detectors, XP Detectors who all have newer models the past several years that are very proven and well tested performers.  there is a pretty fair amount of "newer advanced technology" for consumers to select from.  I think you are right about "dinosaur brands that have to keep up" and sometimes that does mean dropping the MSRP, if necessary, to stay competitive.

It has to be pretty tough to try and sell 'older' models with 'older' technology that have been outclassed at a suggested retail that is significantly higher than comparable detectors on the market.  Again, let's revisit the MXT Pro, or re-hashed / re-named All Pro.  It is still listed at $899.95 USD.  The MXT Pro used to be one of my main-use detectors until a little over two years ago when it was wiped out of my personal detector arsenal because it was simply out-classed and out-performed ... by a model with a renewed lower MSRP of $699.

if you are familiar with the competition out there, look how many competitive models to the MXT series offer manual, VCO Audio, backlighted displays, adjustable Tone Break, Ferrous Audio Volume control, Audio Tone Adjustment, and the ability to Save personal settings or restore a Factory Default ... and several of them sell for $100 or more less than the MXT All Pro.

You did say "you gotta play ball and offer something the world hasn't seen before" and I think that's a good thought.  But TO ME, if a good company is capable of engineering a newer detector, an advanced detector, a state-of-the-art detector that can set a high standard in the industry, I think that company ought to be able to make that engineering move by designing their own search coils that they also engineer to provide the best source for performance from their own detector.

We read a couple of years back where to get the better performance from your top-dollar V3i you needed to buy the after-market Detech Ultimate coil.  Last year you folks speedily rushed the MX Sport to market plagued with circuitry and hardware flaws,  and didn't even make a smaller-size search coils for it.  Then, low-and-behold, a new 7" appears .... also from Detech, the Bulgarian manufacturer.

tboykin: It's a good thing for everyone - the aging workhorse machines become cheaper for entry-level users, and the power users get new technology to play with.... I think that 17 years after the original MXT was introduced, with a few remedies to bring us the MXT Pro / All Pro, it is a bit aging, and is priced much higher than competitive models with more features, better weight and balance, and also better in-the-field performance.  To stay competitive the MSRP should have been reduced a while back.

The only other newer models in the past couple of years have been the Treasure Master and Treasure Pro, not especially hot items, and the Made in China White's XVenture which is a very low-priced model that was marketed by White's factory directly, Amazon and a couple of other sources.  Most dealers I have spoken with don't have it listed, didn't know anything about it, or were not pleased with the fact that White's is selling a bargain priced model against their own dealers.

If Chuck and some others have an MX Sport that is working properly and they like it, fine.   I was hoping the new model was going to be an improved progression of the MXT series, but the several I have handled didn't convey that feeling to me, were nose heavy, and performance was lacking.  Admitted, those were some of the early releases that were in dealer's shops, but they soured me enough to not have tried one now they are supposed to be fixed.

Again, you were right it saying "newer companies advance technology" and they are out there.  I am in the growing group of avid detectorists who are waiting to see what White's might do with some dinosaurs or lemons, adjust prices for reasonable competition, and bring something with newer technology to the market.  Something that is newer, field tested, and evaluated by consumers to be sure it will likely be problem-free and not a rush-to-market new model with failures.

My first factory-produced detector was a Whites in the summer of '68 and I would honestly like to see White's rise back to the upper ranks of detector manufactures like they used to be.  I think it is going to take a bit of effort, however, since the detector market used to be especially strong in the USA way back when, but it is more of a global market today and  dwindling in popularity here in the US. 

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Tom is good at providing his own answers, but it appears he is at Diggin In Virginia (DIV) right now and so too busy to answer as quickly as he normally does. https://m.facebook.com/whiteselectronics/photos/a.282815076693.179255.97887041693/10155274925716694/?type=3&source=48&ref=bookmarks

I could comment more but Tom does well enough speaking for himself. I do appreciate his presence on the forum and hope he is making some great finds at DIV.

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Got back from DIV and found my first ever Civil War relics with the MX Sport and a modified TDI SL!

I will try to answer some of these questions, you didn't ask me what kind of ice-cream I like or what size shoe I wear so it's not too personal.

I do a lot more than media at White's. I am not sure there is a title that would cover everything. But I am involved with product development, marketing, advertising, sales, and customer service. Do a little bit of everything. I've been here at the company for just over a year but am trying to make the absolute biggest impact I can every day. I try hard and take risks, and also make mistakes. But I do a little bit better every day.

I have been detecting seriously for about 2-3 years. I enjoy hunting ghost towns in NV, gold prospecting (still yet to find a nice nugget though), and relic hunting. I started out coin hunting in parks but that is pretty boring now. Maybe that will change when I find a nice 24k ring...

There are many issues that face all manufacturers. The decline of the U.S. hobby market is interesting... I would posit that it is due to stagnation in technology as much as rising regulations and a smartphone-oriented culture. Today's machines go a tiny bit deeper than the old ones but it is till just rehashing. Moving around options and calling it a new detector. All manufacturers are guilty of this!

*Note - Sometimes I will post opinions or thoughts that may not reflect the official company policy of White's, but that is because I am an individual and enjoy discussion. It also helps me do my job better since I can figure out what machine you guys would like to see next. 

I will not profess to be smarter than anyone else in this world - I have a lifetime of learning ahead of me. But I try to make up for that with hard work and lots of listening.

I do get a lot of heat from people for my lack of experience, but it's kind of like buying a used car - "it's the miles, not the years." What I have learned in the past year would have taken me 15 years if I did not work for White's Electronics. This board has helped too!

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Would this find get your interest back for hunting parks?

415 grains of 10k ugly and 5 small diamonds.... actually not sure they are diamonds since i haven't had it checked yet.

 

 

fullsizeoutput_118.jpeg

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1 minute ago, tboykin said:

Well I know what I'm doing this weekend... So much for fishing.

 

I love my V3i

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