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Full Circle - Fisher Gold Bug Pro To Teknetics G2


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3 hours ago, Rivers rat said:

Got the F75dst with the small fisher elliptical 6X3 and i detect in highly iron trash well i think i found my perfect machine...

That is a big plus of the Fisher F75 (and F70/Patriot) over any of the First Texas 19 kHz variants or the T2 which are designed specifically for DD coils - the ability to run concentric coils. Definite advantage on some ferrous targets especially bottle caps.

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3 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

If you'll remember the GB PRO was way behind in numbers when we used the GBII on those patches in WA and required careful coil control in the super noisy variable ground to try and ping what was available, whereas the higher Freq GBII nailed piece after piece.

Many people would tell that same story about a Gold Bug 2 versus any detector all over the world. I had made note of the fact that high frequency machines seem to be the go to in Oz for that specific reason. As a rule people who want to only prospect for gold have a hard time going wrong with pure dedicated prospecting detectors. As soon as you say "good for everything" it is like saying "excels at nothing". Or as the old saying goes, Jack of All Trades, Master of None. However, being good at everything is also a way of excelling, as far as making a unit that really is an all around performer as well as it can be made.

As usual can't argue with anything you are saying. I am happy to hear I am not the only one who thought the XT17000 was special.

3 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

The bench mark for any VLF detector in Australia to target gold regularly in competition with the PIs is high frequency and Auto Ground balance.

I wonder if there are any new detectors matching that description due out soon! :smile: I recall you and I discussing the GMT once upon a time and the fact that you were not impressed with it due to its tracking not being able to handle your ground. My response was "turn the tracking off" but then you may as well have a Gold Bug 2. True high frequency hots combined with Minelab tracking technology (their specialty) would be something I have wanted for a long time. In fact way back in the day my main suggestion for a hoped for Gold Bug 3 was "add ground tracking".

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Thanks Steve!   I snagged up one of those ebay Teknetics.   I've been wanting to try one for a while anyway, this was just the catalyst.  

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Interesting thread for me being on the search for a VLF for my wife . I started with a Garrett Deepseeker in I think late 70's and with no help had a terrible time handling it in the Golden Triangle . I think I'm still paranoid , particularly now that we live in the heart of the Golden Triangle surrounded by variable mineralised ground . Firstly Steve thanks for putting up a click on to Argyle's great thread on Minelab VLF's . I am not all that technical but it was interesting to read that with the Eureka he recommended maximum sensitivity . He went on to discuss getting maximum depth with this setting . Not sure with my "PI" SDC I was taught to lower the sensitivity . I have been detecting with this prospecting friend for a couple of years and he has immense respect in the community for his detecting knowledge and ability . He states that lowering the sensitivity  does not lose depth . To back this up a little since I changed my settings from 5 sensitivity and 6 threshold (depending on ground) to 1 sensitivity and 4 threshold , I am bringing home about 30% more gold . He also states depth is always controlled by the size of the coil .

Going on to JP's reply , I didn't quite connect with your comment " It's taken 22 years for someone to take it's crown here in Australia " What detector were you referring to as a better performer now .

Love the forum .

Cheers

goldrat

 

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Preface this with...I know this is a prospecting forum part but I saw G2 and couldnt resist. 

I used a G2 exclusively for a couple years.  In shallow depth trash busy homesites, it was really awesome.  My soil is mostly very mild...I had an ultimate 13 coil for it for out in the fields, and in disc mode it kept pace with a hunting buddy's F75.

 It lacked in two areas though, and caused me to replace it with an F75.  One was the small coil.  when both were using the 5" coil due to high trash, the F75 spanked it really badly in depth, whether AM or disc, when cross-checking targets.  Some times it could not even see the target while in disc.  With the 11" stock coil the depth fall-off was not as severe, although sometimes I would need to be in AM to have a consistent dig me ID while the F75 was certain of a dig-me target.

The other is AM mode.  The G2 uses the little arch across the top of the screen, and whenever I tried to use the G2 much in AM, it would be mentally fatiguing to stop focusing for a faint sound to then focus on such a small indicator in bright light conditions. Because the soil is mild, I wasnt so much looking to see where the AM was, but how much it would be bouncing as I was circling the targets once I found something deep, and it just was too hard to see, many times.

It found me a lot of cool deep stuff though, and I used it many times in 20-25 deg F out banging in field stubble.  Everytime I look at my revolutionary war boot pistol or my cap'n'ball, I could kick myself for selling it.  It was a serious workhorse.  I would have kept it, but the wife-o-meter was pinging a bit high seeing multiple detectors...I couldnt bear to part with the ultimate coil, so I still have that in case i ever get another greek machine.  The coil was THAT good on it.  

Actually, G2 found me a couple gold rings and earrings, so it counts as a gold detector...

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5 hours ago, rod-pa said:

The G2 uses the little arch across the top of the screen, and whenever I tried to use the G2 much in AM, it would be mentally fatiguing to stop focusing for a faint sound to then focus on such a small indicator in bright light conditions

You just nailed my number one complaint on the Gold Bug/G2/F19/G2+ series. Displaying ground phase while in all metal might make sense for the Gold Bugs, but none at all for the other models. Using that big bold number to display the target id while in all metal as is done on the T2/F75 is far more useful.

The 13 kHz lower frequency really show up on the F75 with coins (except nickels) and the small coils. The 19 kHz will hold their own or exceed on low conductive targets. 

By the way, your Ultimate coil may work fine on your F75. My F75 Ultimate worked well on my Gold Bug Pro.

Back to the display for those that do not know. One reason I like the Fisher/Tek 19 khz series is you get visual target id while in all metal mode. The two circuits, threshold based all metal, and the filtered disc circuit, run in parallel. You hear the all metal channel and see the disc channel on screen. This was a big factor for me over the X-Terra 705 all metal mode, where you get no on screen target id while in prospect Mode.

However, while in all metal mode Fisher chose to make the big target id number into a tracking ground phase number instead. The theory is that as a prospector you can see your current manual ground balance setting in the lower right hand corner. This number does not change unless you adjust it. The number in the middle of the screen tracks the ground. In theory, if you see the two numbers get too far apart, it is time to hit the ground grab button or do a manual adjust by tweaking the setting up or down with the plus or minus buttons.

If you get a target, the target id is displayed on a little speedometer type display up top via a square block. It only stays on screen for a couple seconds, so you have to see the block and gauge its position on the "speedometer" to determine the target id. It works, but for people with poor eyesight or when you have screen glare it is not as visible as it could be.

I personally hear when my ground adjustment is out of whack by listening the the audio threshold so a visual display of the ground phase is redundant and a waste of a big display number in my opinion. If anything put the ground phase on the speedometer as it varies and make the big number the current target id.

This example below shows the screen in threshold based all metal mode. The number in lower right is the current ground balance setting of 83.5 and the big number in the middle is the currently tracked ground phase of 82 - close enough. Up top you see we have a target, and the target id is in the 10-15 range - a ferrous target (0 - 39 ferrous and 40 -99 non-ferrous on the FT 19 khz series). Tip on the target id display: multiple sweeps over a target often will show varying numbers depending on your sweep speed and angle of attack. Hit the target several times in varying fashion, and if you get even a single non-ferrous reading depending on your chosen parameters* then dig the target. Look for a reason to dig, not for reasons to ignore the target.

People often confuse ground balance with the AMOUNT of mineralization when it actually is the TYPE of mineralization. Higher ground balance settings do not automatically mean the ground is "more mineralized" as people often quote. Think of ground balance as a type of notch discrimination, which it is. A certain ground type has a certain target id, so you set the ground balance to notch it out. That's it. So just like when you get a pull tab reading on a coin detector you can notch that pull tab reading out. The catch is you really do not know it is a pull tab. Many things can give that signal, but whatever they are, you tune them out.

The same thing applies with the ground balance setting. You are tuning out a type of ground reading, but it does not tell you the amount of ground mineral you are tuning out. That is where Fe3O4 meters or "Mineral Amount" readings come in. Fe3O4 is magnetite, a common magnetic ground mineral we have to deal with. The vertical bar graph on the left displays the AMOUNT of ground mineral and the ground phase numbers tell you the TYPE of mineralization.

For the First Texas 19 khz series here is what the numbers mean:

Ground Phase (the big number in the middle of screen and/or current ground balance setting)

This number tracks automatically as you move the coil over the ground, and is the number that gets "grabbed" when you hit the Ground Grab button.

0 – 10 Wet salt and alkali
5 – 25 Metallic iron. Very few soils in this range. You are probably over metal.
26–39 Very few soils in this range -- occasionally some saltwater beaches
40–75 Red, yellow and brown iron-bearing clay minerals
75–95 Magnetite and other black iron minerals

Fe3O4 or "Mineral Amount" (vertical bar graph on left)

The Fe3O4 7-segment bargraph indicates the amount of ground mineralization, independent of type, expressed as an equivalent volume concentration of magnetite (Fe3O4). It updates every second. It is sensitive to motion and will give the most accurate readings if you pump the searchcoil up and down several times over the ground. The presence of metal or “hot rocks” will cause the readings to be inaccurate. If you stop moving the searchcoil, the bargraph will go blank.

7 Bars -------- High over 1 over 2500
2 to 6 Bars -- Medium .026 - 1.0 61 - 2,500
1 Bar --------- Very Low 0.006 - .025 15 - 60
none -- less than .006 less than 15

You can find a very detailed discussion of ground phase (type) versus ground mineral amount at this thread.

The bottom line is simple for prospectors however. The First Texas 19 kHz series while in threshold based all metal mode shows you both the ground mineral type and ground mineral amount on screen, along with a live target id from the disc channel when obtainable, and finally, your current battery status.

fisher-gold-bug-ground-phase-target-id-display-all-metal.jpg

*depending on your chosen parameters. What does that mean? On the First Texas 19 khz series (Gold Bugs, G2, F19, G2+) 0 - 39 means ferrous, and 40 - 99 means non-ferrous. Unfortunately, the ferrous and non-ferrous range overlaps on all detectors so there actually is no such clear cut division. 40 is a conservative setting in that it will have you digging almost no ferrous trash, but it will also leave some non-ferous targets in the ground, either very small or very deep weak signals. The more mineralized the ground, the greater the risk of this occurring. Therefore with experience you will find that digging indications as low as 30 will result in more ferrous trash being dug but also some non-ferrous target that were missed by other being recovered. The exact setting you go for will depend on the situation. Personally I pick a number that is as low as possible without overwhelming me with too many ferrous targets dug, and so will adjust my target minimum id number on the fly according to circumstances. However, to give you something to shoot for digging all targets that read 35 and higher is not a bad place to start. I would probably never go lower than 30 myself. Ferrous / Non-Ferrous Overlap Article

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The ebay seller (First Texas)  just cancelled my transaction.  I made an offer, they countered and I accepted.  Today they cancelled with the reason of "out of stock."  This is difficult to believe.  Needless to say I am disappointed and hope they resolve this.

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2 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Give them a call! eBay has the ability to list available quantities as that auction was doing. Somebody blew it on their end and had more listed than were available. Maybe a great deal on a G2+ (or Gold Bug DP etc.) would salve your wounds?

Great idea.  I'll post an update

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