Steve Herschbach

Understanding The Sensitivity Control On The Gold Monster 1000

9 posts in this topic

New Treasure Talk entry...

http://www.minelab.com/anz/go-minelabbing/treasure-talk/understanding-the-sensitivity-control-on-the-gold-monster-1000

What the Automatic Signal Processing is actually doing (advanced description)

Another performance advantage of the two Auto settings (hidden from the user) is that both the sensitivity resolution and adjustment range actually go way beyond what can be displayed via the LCD segments:

  • Where there are ten Manual settings to choose from, the GOLD MONSTER signal processing will automatically make the optimum choice from well over 10,000 incremental steps.
  • Where Manual 10 is the maximum level that can be user selected, the auto level selected may range above 10 if the ambient and ground conditions allow, giving a greater sensitivity than manual will ever be able to achieve. 

IMG_1036.PNG

IMG_0414.PNG

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One might even hope that the rumoured not too far away GPZ software update may include this feature. 

Might be handy :happy:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

minelab-gold-monster-1000-auto-plus-sensitivity-setting.jpg
Minelab Gold Monster 1000 On Alkali Ground in Auto+ Sensitivity Setting

I am as guilty as anyone of running detectors "too hot". It's an old habit, and one that runs contrary to the vast amount of advice on running detectors. Nearly every expert and every written word on the subject recommends seeking a stable, solid threshold. The Sensitivity or Gain control is the primary method for doing this. The advice in general "when encountering noise of any sort, lower the sensitivity."

The Minelab Gold Monster 1000 is running at extremely high levels of internal gain and also with boosted audio. I have always complained about detectors that can be run at full Gain under nearly all conditions, as it makes me feel like performance is being "left on the table". I like machines that become unstable at high Sensitivity levels, and which then must be backed off to find the realistic maximum setting for the conditions.

The problem metal detector manufacturers then face is people just automatically running the machines too hot, as they fear a loss of depth. This in turn leads to complaints of machines being unstable or "too noisy".

The Fisher F75 is my favorite recent example. The machine was originally designed with an exceptionally High Gain receiver circuit. However, this made the machine famous for being noisy, especially in high EMI environments. The answer was to turn the Sensitivity down, but people hated that. It just seems wrong!

So Fisher added filtering to remove the noise. This filtering (DST) does indeed tame the F75, making it far easier to run at full Sensitivity at all times.

And guess what. Some people now complain the new DST models are not as hot as old pre-DST models, especially in all metal mode. Some refuse to use the new ones because of this. Others love the new models for being more stable in urban environments.

Lesson? Metal detector manufacturers just can't win this one. If a detector comes out that can be run to the max limits of the hardware, it will generally draw complaints for being noisy. Conversely, machines that are nice and stable get complaints for being tame! Garrett for instance designs for stability, so the AT models were generally deemed as not being as deep as the F75, while the original F75 drew flack for being to unstable. It will be interesting is the new, more powerful AT Max will draw flack in some quarters for being noisier than the older models.

The Minelab Gold Monster 1000 is a very High Gain boosted audio nugget detector. Doing this helps get it closer to performance attained by higher frequency machines like the 71 kHz Gold Bug 2. However, if you attempt to equal a high frequency machine by boosting Gain and audio, there is a point where noise will intrude. There are simply limits as to how far you can go at any frequency and the GM1000 absolutely is pushing the hardware as far as it can go and maybe a little beyond at max settings. My advice? Please pay attention to this article. Read it, and then read it again. In particular:

"If you set the Sensitivity too low when reducing noise, then you will miss detecting the deeper targets, but if you set the Sensitivity too high, you may make the detector unstable and therefore unusable through detecting too much ground mineralisation or ‘noise’, ‘hot’ rocks and EMI."

"While we strongly recommend running the GOLD MONSTER 1000 in Auto or Auto+, experienced detectorists may wish to use the manual settings." (Emphasis added)

"To manually set Sensitivity, we suggest backing all the way off to Manual 1, then gradually increase the Sensitivity whilst swinging the coil over ground, clear of metal targets, until you hear noise being detected. Then back off the Sensitivity slightly to select the highest possible level before too much noise makes the detector unstable and unusable."

And finally:

"Note: the GOLD MONSTER is a highly sensitive VLF detector, with boosted audio, and it may not be possible to run in Manual 10, in difficult ground, without some noise interference and false signals occurring. If this happens you may be running the detector past its maximum practical limits."

When we state that “the GOLD MONSTER 1000 turns beginners into experts with fully automatic operation”, the Automatic Sensitivity on this new gold detector is an important feature that helps achieve this!

For those of you who insist on running manual, my advice is consider Manual 8 to be the equivalent of the max setting on most detectors. Max 9 is hyper gain and about as far as is practical for many people even in low mineral ground. Consider it a Pro setting. Manual 10 is hitting the hardware limits and some coil touch sensitivity may exhibit itself at this level. The case can be made that maybe Minelab went to far in allowing people to get to this point but I for one begged that the machine not be toned down to what is considered "safe" levels. Manual 10 can reward proficient operators under the right conditions but don't think you can floor the gas on a race car without things getting a little squirrelly! Patience and careful coil control is required when running the ragged edge. People in highly mineralized ground should not even expect to be able to run at this level without encountering difficulty, if it can even be made to work at all. If you are encountering difficulties, reduce the sensitivity manually or employ the Auto Sensitivity settings.

minelab-gold-prospecting-detector-comparison chart-2017-large.jpg
Where Does The Minelab Gold Monster 1000 Fit In The Minelab Lineup?

I think people expecting the GM1000 to be the ultimate VLF replacing all VLF nugget detectors will be disappointed. I specifically wrote my first article on the GM1000 with the goal of trying to get people off that horse. First and foremost, it is designed and marketed as an entry level nugget detector! Hello! I have said it before and will say it again - if you are an old Pro running a 71 kHz Gold Bug 2 with 3" x 6" concentric coil in low mineral ground, such that you have the sensitivity at max and are running in the low mineral setting, then expecting the 45 kHz GM1000 to match or exceed it on the tiniest of tiny bits is expecting too much. Conversely, if you are running a 14 kHz machine with a 14" x 13" DD coil and expecting the GM1000 to beat it on larger deeper gold you are expecting too much. If you are expecting the GM1000 to come close to replacing a SDC, GPX, or GPZ, you are expecting WAY too much!

If you are looking for a great value in a high performance entry level detector designed specifically at running at higher frequencies in difficult ground with ease of use as the primary goal, you have the right idea. It really is optimized such that if run correctly it will handle tough conditions and deliver the goods. While the GM1000 can't beat the 71 kHz machine at what it does best, or the 14 kHz machine at what it does best, it straddles the line between both as well and as broadly as was possible for Minelab to make it, delivering as much as possible on the best attributes of both. If you use the GM1000 as intended and do not attempt to force the detector to be something it is not, you will be a happy camper.

Those who insist on doing otherwise I will refer to this thread in the future and say "I told you so". People complain about hype but I am now of the opinion people want hype. They want to be told whatever they want to hear, and if people won't tell it to them, they will just imagine it anyway. My original post linked below and this post are the "anti hype" and hopefully a reason why people read this forum.

I think the Minelab Gold Monster 1000 is an excellent and very valuable addition to the choices we already have available on the market. I think Minelab is going to sell a ton of them. Since I do believe this to be the case I am going out of my way to attempt to head off people "hyping themselves" into being disappointed when their imaginings turn out not to be true. Please, I try hard to be straight up with you all. Read my previous "First Impressions thread" and the "Sensitivity Article" and this post as many times as needed to understand what is being said. Thank you!

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I admire your tenacity, Steve...even Jesus had the problem of people hearing what they want...not what was meant. 

But, please keep trying it is fun to watch the sparks when you get a little miffed...

I say that in the most respectful way.

fred

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Fred, thanks.

There has been this growing backlash on the internet against what has been perceived as "official tester hype". It has gone too far now with continuous personal attacks. One guy on Findmall and the so-called "Friendly Forum" has gone so far as to label testers as "trained monkeys".

As a tester I don't find that sort of talk to be very friendly and as a result I set up this forum and have basically stopped posting elsewhere. If people think testers posting reviews on forums is hype, then I just won't do it anymore except for on this forum. Anyone coming here and reading what I have to say by seeking me out and then complaining about it is an idiot and can expect to get the boot. You don't want to hear what I have to say then don't come here!

How is that for miffed? :biggrin:

Anyway, as time has passed I have been trying to better craft my posts so as to avoid this sort of accusations of hype developing. Much to my dismay people really do hear what they want to hear anyway so it seems a bit futile at times. In my book however trying to put the right tools in the right hands is always the better strategy for the long run. Hype just results in destructive blowback and so really should be avoided for sound long term business reasons. Good products just prove themselves over time. If anything Minelab fights an uphill battle each time as the troops of Minelab haters pile on first. It usually takes a year to sort out, and in the end Minelab products almost without fail (there are a few exceptions) have proven to be real winners.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the good thing about you Steve, consistent remarks that are cemented in real world experience that stand the test of time. You're your own worst critic so the nameless brigade have nothing compared to your own personal code of ethics on what you say and how you conduct yourself. And then for good measure you draw a very solid "Trump's Mexican Wall" like line in the sand that even blind Freddy would find hard to miss!

I have to say though, a lot of this would not be happening if product was made available on the advertised release date. I'm sure there are a lot of very frustrated sales people at Minelab right now.

JP

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On ya, Steve the hyenas will never get you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The naysayers will never stop and fools never learn; no matter how hard one may try...

therefore, integrity is the first, last and only bastion for one's self.

fred

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always look forward to your reviews and informative evaluations Steve. They are always factual and unbiased. Keep up the good work and don't get discouraged. We all value your input!

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • By strick
      Ok here's a youtube link..looks like Mexico is gettin them before us lol
       
    • By Steve Herschbach
      Here it is! http://www.minelab.com/usa/go-minelabbing/treasure-talk/mastering-the-gold-monster-1000
      "Savvy operators will be able to work the GM 1000 in surprisingly noisy ground once they come to terms with the methods I’ve described above. It takes practice but the effort is well worth it because these two Auto functions in combination with Zero threshold really does allow this detector to work in ground a VLF has no business working in - areas that I would consider to be MPS and MPF territory. In the quieter soils, Auto+ lifts the sensitivity to levels that surprised me, behaving like a much higher frequency machine Although not a ‘deep-punching’ machine like an SDC 2300, the GM 1000 still ‘holds its own’ on the shallow surface gold crumbs missed by the more powerful Minelab detectors."
    • By Lunk
      I recently had the very fortunate opportunity to use the Minelab Gold Monster 1000 for 30 days. During that time, I was able to discover the nuances of the machine that, like any metal detector, can only be fully realized by logging lots of hours behind the control box and investigating lots of targets. 

      In Steve's excellent review, he has covered most of what the GM 1000 is capable of doing, as well as the features and functions of the machine, so I will not rehash those here. Instead, I will relate my experiences with the detector and its unadvertised abilities that have come to light during my sojourn with it in hand. 

      I first powered up the Monster at Rye Patch, Nevada, and after a very brief automatic frequency scan, the unit emitted two short beeps, signaling that it was ready to start swinging with no pumping of the coil or ground balancing necessary...nice! The first thing I did was to bury a small 3 or 4 grain test nugget a couple of inches into the damp alkali soil, so as to fiddle with the manual and automatic sensitivity settings in order to find the most  distinct target response. Right off the bat I noticed there was no audible threshold...a little unnerving, but I decided to just roll with it and trust that the engineers at Minelab know what they are doing.  In all-metal search mode at low sensitivity settings there was no response from the conductive damp alkali ground, and very little to no response from the tiny test nugget.  Increasing the sensitivity to 6 or 7 made the nugget start popping much better, but some slight feedback from the ground was also noticeable. At a manual sensitivity setting of 10, the conductive alkali response was overwhelming, but as soon as I increased it to 11 - which is the first automatic sensitivity setting - the screaming ground response completely disappeared and in it's place was a crisp, clear target response from the test nugget...very impressive. Advancing the automatic  sensitivity to 12 (auto+), the signal response from the test nugget was even louder and more intense, but there was also some ground response as well. I decided why listen to ground noise when the test nugget is plenty audible at a setting of 11, and went with that. 
      With any new detector, I dig every target, even if reads 100% ferrous, just to familiarize myself with how the machine responds to various different targets. The few hot rocks that signaled on the Monster, both positive and negative, completely pegged the gold chance indicator all the way left into the ferrous zone. Soon I was finding extremely small bits of foil, lead and iron. Then I started to notice something quite amazing to me; the iron targets - even the tiniest ones - were making a subtle "boing" type of a response like a negative hot rock, whereas the nonferrous targets were more zippy and lacked that subtle boing quality. After a while, I found that I no longer needed to look at the gold chance indicator to determine whether a target was ferrous or not, just by relying on the sounds; I was really starting to like this detector. Then it happened: a fairly strong response that was pegging the gold chance indicator all the way right, into the non-ferrous zone. After digging a couple of inches, out popped a beautiful little crystalline nugget weighing a mere 2.4 grains - the first Monster nugget!


      With the northern Nevada weather being uncooperative and still quite wintery, I headed for the sunny warm deserts of Arizona.  First stop...the Yucca Dense Collection Area north of Lake Havasu City, formerly known as the Franconia meteorite strewn field. VLF machines make the best meteorite hunters, and the Gold Monster 1000 did not disappoint. I took it to an area that is carpeted with basalt hot rocks that make it extremely difficult to operate a VLF while retaining any shred of sanity. The Monster was incredibly noisy in auto sensitivity, but adjusting it manually to a setting of 4 mellowed it right out and within 5 minutes the detector nailed its first space rock!


      and then another a while later...

      Although finding meteorites is fun, the GM 1000 is a gold nugget detector after all, so it was on to the famed gold fields of Quartzsite, Arizona to see what the Monster could do in beat up old patches that have litterally been detected by hundreds, if not thousands of detector operators. Well, suffice it to say it didn't take long to find the first sub-grain speck of gold.


      And another...

      The ground in Quartzsite is much milder than the alkali rich soils of Rye Patch, but has lots more hot rocks including magnetite, which is super hot and very magnetic. As I was detecting an old nugget patch littered with these super strong  magnetite hot rocks, I decided to see how the Monster responded to them; waving  the coil over one resulted in a very sharp and intense zip-zip. Slowing my sweep speed to see if the signal would broaden, I slowly raised the coil an inch or two above the magnetite to see if the signal would drastically decrease in strength (an old VLF hot rock identification trick). Slowly lowering the coil back down above the rock, I was suddenly incredulous at what I was now hearing...absolutely nothing! The Gold Monster had completely tracked out a magnetite hot rock!  I placed my test nugget right up against the magnetite and was stunned to hear the nugget respond loud and clear, with absolutely no interference from the hot rock. Even this guy couldn't hear that hot rock:

      I also found more meteorites in Quartzsite with the Gold Monster...the full story here:
      In my limited time swinging the new Minelab Gold Monster 1000, I can definitely say that it is unique and can do things that I haven't seen from any other single frequency VLF gold nugget detector, all in a light weight simple to operate and competitively priced package...kudos to Minelab!

       
       
    • By Shasta gold hunter
      I just called Minelab customer service for the Americas and they confirmed there is a delay.  They said the detectors are made in Malaysia and  they did confirm they have been shipped from there.  No estimated arrival for west coast dealers was offered. 
    • By Steve Herschbach
      "I am fortunate to have been involved in the testing of the new Minelab GOLD MONSTER 1000 prior to its release. One benefit is that I have seen the questions that others have posed about the detector, and now I can answer a few of them.
      When I use new detectors I always have a goal in mind. I am not trying to pick the detector apart for what it cannot do. Instead, I believe most well designed detectors have something they excel at. My goal is to determine how to use a new detector for maximum benefit. The best way to make that happen is to use the detector in the way it was intended to be used, instead of trying to force it to be something it is not. The key is to be realistic. The GOLD MONSTER 1000 is sold as an entry level single frequency metal detector. Expecting it to outperform detectors costing many times its price is unrealistic.
      Engineers face a very important choice when designing a single frequency metal detector, especially as regards gold prospecting. What frequency should the detector run at? That choice determines nearly everything else about the detector. In general, low frequencies below 20 kHz handle mineralized ground better, and offer good performance on larger gold nuggets. Higher frequencies over 20 kHz enhance the sensitivity to small gold nuggets, but unfortunately ground handling suffers.
      The number one question I see asked on the internet is how the  GOLD MONSTER stacks up as compared to this detector or that detector."
      Read the rest of the report on Minelab's Treasure Talk 

      Minelab Gold Monster 1000 in Nevada

      Eleven small nuggets found by Steve with GM1000 - Click for larger version
      14.9 grains total, largest 4.4 grains Smallest at bottom 0.6 grain and 0.3 grain
    • By Steve Herschbach
      I received this question via email, edited to remove any tips as to the source:
      "Steve-  been reading your reviews of detectors from way, way back.  Now I'm looking for a bit of advice. I've got a claim where I've pulled nice gold, but the biggest single nugget has been just about a gram, pretty small stuff (but it's pretty plentiful). My GB-2 has really shined in this environment - shallow bedrock, low mineralization, and plenty of small gold. The issue is that my son doesn't want to let me use the GB-2, as he wants to use it all the time. That puts me in the market for another VLF  machine. I've tried the GB-Pro, and didn't really care for it. Your review of the Nokta AU Gold Finder, and the Makro Gold Racer, both look pretty good. Other than the display and control box itself, are these machines really the same, or would one do better (coil size being equal) than another on small gold with low mineralization? The reason why I just don't go get another GB-2 is that it would be a nice bonus to use the new detector close by my son, while still hopefully having it excel and finding small gold.  Any insights would be greatly appreciated. If there really isn't anything else that comes close, then I'll certainly go for another GB-2, even at it being as old as it is, but if there is another one that would excel in the above environment, I'd certainly appreciate your opinion on it."
      Well, in my opinion the 71 kHz Gold Bug 2 with 6" coil has been and continues to be the top of the heap when it comes to finding the tiniest bits of gold. So the real question is whether you feel like giving up that little edge the unit has over all the rest in order to run a machine right next to your son without the two machines interfering. You also have the advantage of being very well versed in the use of the Bug.
      Let's assume you do want to get something else however. You have mentioned the 56 kHz AU Gold Finder and Gold Racer, and they are indeed the same circuit in two very different packages. Coils from one will work just as well on the other. Other current new model alternatives would be the 48 khz White's GMT and probably the very soon to be available 45 kHz Minelab GM1000. Finally, I should mention the XP Deus V4 high frequency coil options hitting the market now in case you might consider a more exotic option. There also have been hints of a dedicated gold machine from XP this year.
      I would assume a small coil as being a must have, and an advantage with the Gold Bug 2 is you can get it with the small coil as a stock variation. So let's compare internet prices.
      Fisher Gold Bug 2 with 3.25" x 6.5" coil = $764
      Makro Gold Racer with 5.5" x 10" coil $699 plus 4" x 7.5" coil $119 = $818 or Pro Pack $899
      Nokta AU Gold Finder with 5.5" x 10" and 5.5" round coils = $999
      White's GMT with 6" x 10" coil $729 plus 4" x 6" coil $127 = $856
      Minelab GM1000 with 6" x 10" coil and 5" round coil = $799
      A Deus runs $1250 plus the 4.7" x 9.5" elliptical HF coil at $425 = $1675 so not a good fit here for price and no smaller coil option than the elliptical. The only hope of that improving is if the dedicated gold machine shows up with the HF coil as stock.
      I have to admit that the reports of warranty issues with early Gold Racer models have me concerned. This despite the fact I have what must be the oldest Gold Racer and AU Gold Finder units in the country, and both are going strong. I have to assume the issues, whatever they were, have been ironed out. I don't know that for a fact however. If you got one and still had a problem, Nokta/Makro is famous for resolving issues with customer satisfaction. The units carry a two year transferable warranty.
      The GMT is the safe tried and true made in the U.S. option, and as far as performance the 56 kHz Gold Racers and 48 kHz GMT run neck and neck.
      The big unknown at an attractive price is the 45 kHz Minelab Gold Monster 1000.
      My best advice - wait! The flood gates are just now opening as regards reports on the GM1000 and at $799 with two coils it looks on paper at least to be an option worth waiting to find out more about. If you have to do something this minute, the GMT is the safe option if the reports of problems with the Gold Racers worry you. Personally, I have been very happy with my Gold Racer and would not trade it for a GMT. I have to note I finally did get another Gold Bug 2 with 6" coil however. If you are the sort of person who can't live without having that last small edge of performance, it is still the machine to beat for tiny gold performance in milder ground like you are describing.
      Click picture for larger version.