Jump to content

Recommended Posts

MDdetector    0
51 minutes ago, Jennifer said:

In all fairness to Minelab, we have no idea how old this unit is or how rough it was treated. 

[...]

Dont judge the build quality without knowing the history of the unit.... :smile:

We have no need to know how old the unit is or how rough it was treated because in the video we can see the history we need.  I.e. how it was designed.  Which is poorly when it comes to this wire connection.  The ML design here connects some discrete wires to a PCB by use of a simple through hole and a blob of solder.   That's pretty much a design fail for reliability and ruggedness in gear that will be constantly be moved / handled.

There are lots of types of discrete wire to board connectors available and ML used none of them here.  Such connectors exist because otherwise stuff likes this happens. 

Given the label for the connection, "TXA"- transmit A, my (limited) understanding of the Russian narration, and the fact the box is open and under repair, it seems the failed / intermittent connection is pretty important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jennifer    524
2 hours ago, MDdetector said:

We have no need to know how old the unit is or how rough it was treated because in the video we can see the history we need.  I.e. how it was designed.  Which is poorly when it comes to this wire connection.  The ML design here connects some discrete wires to a PCB by use of a simple through hole and a blob of solder.   That's pretty much a design fail for reliability and ruggedness in gear that will be constantly be moved / handled.

There are lots of types of discrete wire to board connectors available and ML used none of them here.  Such connectors exist because otherwise stuff likes this happens. 

Given the label for the connection, "TXA"- transmit A, my (limited) understanding of the Russian narration, and the fact the box is open and under repair, it seems the failed / intermittent connection is pretty important.

Through hole soldering is quite common/the industry norm and the strongest method to attach wires to a board when there is no to remove the wires or use a pin header, molex etc.

It's not simply a wire through a hole and a blob of solder as you put it. The wire is tinned and inserted in the hole which is lined with a pre-tinned copper trace which has a round tinned solder tab on the other side and then it is soldered, usually via moving the board above a sheet of molton solder, this is called wave soldering. The surface area of the copper inside the hole and the solder pad give great mechanical strength once cooled. If moved during cooling, a week bond or cold solder joint (indicated by a dull grey finish, not shiny as preferred) can result, as it appears happened here. The above mentioned traces are chemically etched into the printed circuit boards and normally last the life of the board and do not lift.

In relation to our detectors moving, the relationship between the board and connection for the coil that this wire uses is relatively non moving, housed in the same case, they are static to each other, other than jostle from the wire shaking and as I'm sure they used stranded core and not solid core, again sufficient.

These two board photos are the solonoid boards from one of my M5's earlier mentioned. They adjust the engine VANOS timing by allowing or disallowing engine oil under pressure to change the camshaft position. Notice anything in the photos? Exactly the same wire attachment method... (on the little green printed circuit boards, orange arrow. The main board has pins but the bridging boards between the wires and solonoid leads are straight common through hole soldered to solder trace tabs).

I reckon Minelab thought if it was good enough for a $100,000.00 German BMW in the engine compartment, under the constant vibration of a V-8 engine, it was good enough for them, and I concur.

PS: I do concur it appears to be a cold solder joint that opened up the connection but that speaks more to an isolated one off faulty solder as the board transitioned over the wave solder table, not indicative of a bad wiring connection design.....

Note: There's a good chance that the soldering of these wires into the already populated (with components) and wave soldered board is a manual process and as a result was simply human error.

Just a guess but TX A is most likely transmit coil A winding.

Jen

IMG_2436.PNG

IMG_2437.PNG

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve Herschbach    7,491

I have had detectors made by every brand fail on me. The more anything costs, the higher my expectations get for quality design and durability. Yet as a person who ran a service dept I can testify that is not reality. The best companies make good products, then use a feedback loop based on warranty submissions to improve those things that fail. As a rule this means buying first year product makes you part of the final bug check, with models made in the second and third years of manufacture becoming more reliable as engineering design faults and manufacturing errors are identified and corrected.

Loose intermittent connections and other intermittent electrical issues were usually the worst. Typical failure report by customer and works fine in shop. We sometimes spent days tracking down an issue that took five minutes to fix. You ever try billing a customer ten hours for a five minute fix? Fun stuff! :smile:

Interesting look under the hood - thanks Jen. Welcome to the forum MDdetector.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mungass    14

Notice anything on the photos ?

Yup  looks like ya had a couple of resistors removed ! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jennifer    524
20 minutes ago, mungass said:

Notice anything on the photos ?

Yup  looks like ya had a couple of resistors removed ! 

They're not actually resistors but it's an easy mistake to make, notice that the stripes are all the same color, not different per a resistor color code/chart. These are MOV's (Metal Oxide Veristors" and for the repair in question, were being replaced by 1N4148 diodes.:smile:

And the reason I fixed it was because take off VANOS boards range from $2,300 per side (the engine has two, one per bank) up to $2,700.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-BMW-E39-E52-M5-Z8-Solenoid-for-Vanos-Unit-NEW-11367831450-/122159471884?epid=1122097616&hash=item1c71459d0c:g:~BgAAOSwZJBX~-Fw&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E39-E52-M5-Z8-Solenoid-for-Vanos-Unit-Genuine-Brand-New-11-36-7-831-450-/361183151555?epid=1122097616&hash=item54183185c3:g:KOYAAOSwxYxUs8~7&vxp=mtr

 

Jen

Screen Shot 2017-08-08 at 4.26.41 PM.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mungass    14

  Yup Jen do notice , a lot more obvious on the pc compared to the 8x4 tablet , and why wouldn,t you .

Many moons ago when I was learning the poker machine repair trade or slot machines as you call them over there , I was with a small private business , and we repaired every board we could , money was money , and a jumper wire didn,t cost more than a couple of beers  unlike the Aristocrat board jockeys who were our competition ,  rip it ,  swap it ,  send it back to factory when box was full . ha ha 

was checkin a couple of curley chords off the 3500 a few weeks ago that didn,t  work , checked continuity and both had none at same pin , took a punt and  cut 3 inches off the most stretched end    and   bingo  problem solved , resoldered ends and when wires of offcut  were stripped back just for interest ,  both white wires in the leads  had breaks   :blink:   ,mmmm  go figure , :cool:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jennifer    524
On 8/6/2017 at 10:42 AM, Jennifer said:

It would be interesting to see this compared to a CTX3030.

Jen

Ask and ye shall recieve, inside a 3030 for comparison (he's re attaching his GPS module).

Jen

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

    • By fredmason
      So, just one more issue during my Outing...
      I have been in the habit of tossing my ferrite on the ground...foolish me. They break into many pieces...so no more tossing...
      I wonder if the ring can be super glued back to one piece and function correctly? Or is it more like a metal ring that no longer gives the same signal once the circle is broke?
      Or do I need a new one?
      so many questions....
      fred
    • By fredmason
      While up in the Sierra for a WSPA Outing I used my gpz. I had not used it since I did the upgrade. 
      When I pushed the map button the man-icon came up but there were no tracks. The unit would mark a point and display it but no tracks to see where I had wandered.
      I also noticed the unit would not return to correct threshold in a timely manner. Nor did the other functions always work correctly...
      two different issues I think. What say yea?
      fred
    • By fredmason
       
      opinions welcome regarding the "best" coil-cover for the 19 inch.
      I don't like the stock cover-but, that was a forgone conclusion..
      I am not sure of the choices or durability of the manufactured items...
      I think the lexan is durable but...................more weight on a heavy coil.
      I will say that using the 19 inch makes the 14 seem a featherweight...in comparison.
      fred
       
    • By Jennifer
      My compliments to the chef, this crow I'm eating tonight is delicious  
      Note: these are post CLR/ultrasonic clean....  
      You all know I've been pretty "honest" about my love for my 5000 and the frustrations I've had with Zeddie but she blew me away today on these three from the King Tut Placers (Gold Basin). They were down 3/4 of a foot or so and were clear as day, sung like a jay bird beautiful weee woooo dig me dig me signal.... 
      Weights (in grains)
      1.7 grains, 2.2 grains, and 3.1 grains.... 
      Very thin pieces, as can be seen in the leaning on the dime photo.... It looks like Zeddie's sleeping on the couch today, not standing up in the corner like usual. 
      I know my 5000 and 17x13 Evo would have missed them, I tested similar size... with the Sadie, maybe but these sounded like they were right on the surface, one was in a dig hole (thank you whomever left it).
      I'll eat GPZ crow all day long if it tastes like this.
      Note: I also tested on a 1.2 ouncer at DEEEEEP depth and was blown away how loud it was, even at sens 4.
      Green stripe shot is prior to cleanup.
      My favorite is the one that looks like a little shopping cart. 
      Jen 



    • By PhaseTech
      Hi all, 
      Got a new video up recently, but I say (old) as the footage was taken just before Christmas! 
       
    • By Steve Herschbach
      I have been holding off posting this, as I worry it could get people who do it into trouble, or cause people running the way I do to blame my settings on the GPZ itself. Reality is what it is however and my journey with the GPZ 7000 has taken me to interesting extremes. I decided it is time to just tell you what I have been using for settings and let the cards fall where they may.
      My early posts on the Zed all advised taking it easy with the settings early on, especially for beginners. I took my own advice and slowly ramped things up over time. The entire time however I have been going in just the opposite direction from where I headed with the Minelab PI detectors.
      The goal with the GPX 5000 and its predecessors was to seek the smoothest, quietest threshold possible. Every advance the units made moved in that direction, until with the GPX we reached the pinnacle of smooth, well behaved performance.
      The GPZ 7000 experience for me has been more like a return to my roots running hot VLF detectors. Most common and very sensible advice including that I have offered myself always has been about trying to get the machines to obtain a smooth steady threshold if possible. And good advice it is. The funny thing is, I usually never run my machines like that myself. I crank them up and run them hot and noisy. A novice listening to me run a Gold Bug 2 in bad ground would be baffled by all the sounds the machine is making. To me however after decades of detecting it is all just feedback about what is going on under the coil, with the key thing being that the magic sound of a real target just jumps out at me out of all the ground and hot rock sounds.
      The first thing I did with my GPZ 7000 was pay close attention to every tidbit Jonathan Porter would reveal. Two things got my attention. First was his mention of how the Zed has a livelier response to the ground when in operation. The second was his obvious dislike for audio smoothing. The first thing I did was turn audio smoothing off and I have basically never used it.
      The second step was in determining that in most ground I worked the Normal ground setting was far more powerful than the default Difficult setting. I used Difficult a bit initially, and fell back to it a few times, but going to Normal was something that happened very early on, and if you look at my earliest posts on the GPZ 7000 I advised people to always at least give Normal a try before going back to Difficult if need be.
      High Yield is the default GPZ gold mode and I have always stayed with it. Minelabs unfortunate naming of the gold modes make people think the other modes are deeper but they only are so in a relative sense, relative to the ground you are in and the gold you are hunting. More details on this thread at http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/1236-gpz-high-yield-general-or-extra-deep/ High Yield is the high frequency mode on the GPZ with the transmitted field switching pole directions three times faster than in General or Extra Deep. You could say there really are only two modes because General and Extra Deep are just two versions of the same mode. Yes, yes, yes, before people chime in, I am very aware there are times and places for General and even Extra Deep. In fact, I will always downshift to General before I will come off the Normal ground setting. For me default mode is Normal/High Yield and if things get difficult then go to Normal/General. The next shift down would be to Difficult/High Yield and then finally Difficult/General. I doubt I will ever use Extra Deep until a larger coil is on my GPZ. And even then not much.
      The last step was the Gain. I ran 12 a long time, then 14. Then two months ago I just jumped to 20.
      The GPZ the way I run is almost always making some kind of noise, all of which lumped together is what I use as a threshold sound. I control things mostly through three audio settings. To preserve my sanity I keep settings low. I never use headphones these days unless the wind is really bad, other wise I keep the wireless module on my upper left chest closer to my better ear. One oddity on the GPZ 7000 is that there really is not a basic volume control so you have to fiddle with several settings to get comfortable sound levels.
      What they call Volume on the GPZ 7000 should have been called Audio Boost. From the owners manual"
      "Volume controls the amplification of a target’s audio response, relative to the target signal strength. This audio setting is most similar to volume adjustments in other devices (e.g. radio or television volume controls). The Volume control has a range from 1 to 20 with a default setting of 8. With a setting of 1, weak target signals will sound quiet, medium target signals will sound mid-range and strong target signals will sound loud. There will be greater differentiation between target signal strengths; however, weak signals will be harder to hear. With a setting of 20, all target signals will be amplified to a loud audio response. At this setting there may be less differentiation between medium and strong signals, but weak target signals will be easier to hear."
      That last note might make you think more volume is better - you do not want to miss those weak signals! I tend the other way as I want my targets to exhibit as much audio variation as possible. This is one setting I still need to possibly tweak but for now I seem to have settled into 4 as the one that works best for my ear.
      Volume Limit is much more like a regular volume control. I would have put Volume Limit on the main settings page, then relabled Volume as Audio Boost and put it on the secondary page. Future update hint Minelab? Again, from the manual: "The Volume Limit sets the maximum volume for target signals. When detecting, the sound produced by a target can be very loud. Adjust the Volume Limit to ensure that loud targets do not hurt your ears. The Volume Limit has a range of 1-20, with a preset of 12." More like a blast limiter than a volume control but this control is the one you really need to use to control how loud the GPZ is.
      I find 12 to be way too high for me, and by coincidence 4 turned out to also work for me there. The final piece of the puzzle is the actual threshold setting. I find 22 works well for me when I am in very quiet locations, and I bump to 25 if there is noise from wind or whatever around me. There are other audio settings but I try to mess with as little as possible to keep changes simple if I do a master reset. On full reset I:
      Main Settings (Detect) Page
      1. Switch from default Difficult ground setting to Normal
      2. Sensitivity from default 9 to 20
      3. Volume (Audio Boost) from default 8 to 4
      Next Page - Detect Plus
      4. Threshold from default 27 to 22-25 depending
      5. Volume Limit from default 12 to 4
      6. Audio Smoothing Off
      Next page - Settings
      7. GPS from default off to Enhanced
      8. Wireless from default Off to On
      9. Connect to WM12 wireless module
      10. Finally, go to Map Menu under View and turn View Geotrail from Default off to On
      Only after all this is done do I go through the Quick Start frequency scan and ground balance (with ferrite). These settings all will be retained with power off so done once and I am pretty well set. All I do from then on is fire up in morning and do the Quick Start routine, which I will repeat at lunch time or if I move to a new area. The only thing I have to really remind myself to do is when starting each hunt to go to the Create Geodata page to initiate saving my path to memory. If you are reading Minelab, why can't I assign this to the user button? And, if I forget and walk 1/4 mile before before doing it, it sure would be nice to be offered the option to pick up and save that last 1/4 mile, which is clearly there on screen and in memory, instead of losing it. But I digress.......
      Again, once all this gets set up it is retained on power off and repower, so for me I fire the GPZ 7000 up, do the Quick Start, go to Create Geodata, and start my hunt. The only setting I mess with may be the threshold, which I use as a sort of final audio sensitivity control.
      The secret to all this pretty much boils down to a hundred hours or more of using the GPZ to get used to the audio and the way the machine responds to the ground. In doing so it all becomes about coil control and sweep speed. When I run into ground noise, hot rocks, or other issues like salt ground, the only thing that normally changes is how fast I hunt. Everything quiet I go faster, more sounds I slow down. In salt ground I am moving at a crawl, letting the audio feedback dictate the sweep speed. I set up an artificial threshold of rising high tones and descending low tones by using a carefully controlled slow sweep. Even small nuggets still pop for me in salt ground.
      In other ground no matter what else is going on with these settings a nugget just goes "BANG"!!
      Chris Ralph and I hunt together a lot. He tried not even the full bore version of this, and immediately went back to his quieter settings. WARNING! I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THESE SETTINGS! All I am doing is telling you what I am doing. I am not saying they are the “best” settings or any such nonsense. They clearly will not work for many people and in many locations etc. etc. whatever. Running too hot can be counter productive. The happiest thing about the GPZ 7000 is in most cases it gets the gold if you get the coil over it using almost any settings. Chris certainly does as well as I using the settings he uses and he is happier for it. There are various “quiet” settings being used by others out there and they are finding lots of gold doing what they do. You do have to put the coil over the nugget first and foremost, and I am not going to be a settings snob and claim I know best for anyone besides myself. I have no doubt someday I will run into ground where I do something completely different. Always remember, there is never one magic setting for all times and places, otherwise all we would need is an on/off knob. Use what works for your ground and your own personal comfort level.
      But now at least nobody can say I did not tell you what settings I am using. Last warning though – getting a new GPZ 7000 and doing this would be like buying a new race car having never driven one, then getting in and just flooring it. You are going to crash and burn. If you are new to the GPZ, do please take it easy and give it time. It is one of those machines that really grows on you with time. Anyone giving up on it with under 50-100 hours really has not even tried. Or maybe GPX style hunting is just better for them. Just my opinion. Again, whatever works.

×