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As always, great comments Monte!   

First, please pardon my typo... it is the 8x11 widescan coil that I have (and thank you for not calling me out on my error.. ;)). 

Second, the more I use this machine, the more I am liking it and learning its capabilities.  I absolutely love the All Metal mode and am both surprised and impressed with the depth it detects in that mode.  Of course... it is "ALL METAL", so working this mode in a very trashy area would take some patience, but I found myself in an open soccer field yesterday and getting excited each time I got the threshold bump telling me there was a target below.  The joy of detecting.  I did manage to find some deep clad, and a few pieces of junk jewelry... nothing of real value.... yet. 

I have heard mixed reviews on the concentric coil, and truly the only way to know for sure is to try it myself.  I have heard the concentric coil struggles in difficult ground, but the reality is, I am not looking for depth as much with the 6" as I am better separation of masked targets, so that might not make as much difference... especially with the 8x11 ready to go in the wings for any depth needs. 

As you mentioned, avid detectorists have several machines.  My current stable contains 8... and soon to be 9 when the Equinox is released (I think it is time to thin the herd).  Right now, this Vaquero is in #2 position to my SE Pro.  Or maybe a better way to say it would be sitting in a shared position with the SE Pro... depending on the type of hunting I intend to do. 

I hope to post some nice Vaquero finds soon.  Tim.

 

 

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Good info from all three of you.  Thanks!  If I could squeeze out just a bit more...

This thread has been based upon the Vaquero with mention of other models.  From what I can find online, the Tejon seems to have a lot going for it as well, but with a $175 higher retail and $150 higher MAP.  At Ebay it appears (within large uncertainty, I admit) that it sells used in about the same ballpark as a used Vaquero.  (If true that makes me a bit suspicious.)

(For those not familiar with this unit:)  Apparently on the plus side it has dual discrimination, which allows you to set one in all-metal and the other in some kind of discrimination (for example, cut out iron) and then switch back and forth using the 3 position toggle switch beneath the control box (3rd position being pinpoint mode).  If I understand correctly, you get higher sensitivity in all metal so you could search in that mode and easily flip over to discriminate to check the target's conductivity (above/below your set threshold).

On the minus side, it's about 3/4 lb heavier (some of this being due to the batteries:  8 AA vs. single 9V).  It runs at a higher frequency (17.5 kHz vs. 14.5 kHz) but I wouldn't think that is a big minus.  It also doesn't have the +/- 0.2 kHz frequency shift/tweak option of the Vaquero. 

Is the Tejon's dual mode just not useful in practice or is there something else that users have found that the ads aren't telling us?

 

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GB, I am just speculating when I say the additional price is justified by Tesoro by the addition of the easy switch between modes (Disc and AM). 

Speaking for my reasons for choosing the Vaquero over the Tejon...  I liked the pinpoint button option, but honestly, knowing now what I didn't know then... I rarely use it other than setting the ground balance... the Vaquero pinpoints easily without it... even with the 11x8 coil, and especially in AM.  Also, I was sold on the weight difference between the 9V and AA's.. though it probably wouldn't make that big a difference when swinging.  When I got the Vaq, I was swinging an Etrac with a 15" WOT on the end... so a couple AA's over a 9V wouldn't make that much difference.  I guess the biggest deciding factor along with those rather minor differences was that I am mostly a turf hunter for coins, and hopes to get better and jewelry hunting.  So I was looking for a nice marriage of targeting higher conductive items, while being decent at hitting on shallowish gold. 

What I didn't know when I bought it, but found out when I started using it... I switch back and forth between AM and Disc to try and get a target id more than I thought I would, so the Tejon switch would be handy... but as I understand the supertune option better, the Vaquero might give me a combination of both AM and Disc, (though understandably less depth than AM and less accurate ID as in pure disc mode... but it is a trade off). 

Having said all that, and having the Vaquero in my possession... it does everything I hoped it would do, and more (much better depth than I expected while in AM).  However, I admit, I might have the same exact comment if I had the Tejon in my possession rather than the Vaquero.  As CSN&Y said... Love The One You're With. :)  And I do.

Tim.

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From GB Amateur:This thread has been based upon the Vaquero with mention of other models.  From what I can find online, the Tejon seems to have a lot going for it as well, --... All of the 'better' Tesoro models have "a lot going for them" and it is just a matter of each individual deciding what it is about a particular Tesoro detector, current production or one from the past, that qualifies it as being  'good' or 'better' Tesoro that does what they want or need.

There's no such thing as a 'perfect' detector which is why I have a few models in my personal detector battery that serve my needs well and are a complement to other models in the team.  Having owned, used, sold, and evaluated almost every land-based Tesoro model since July of '83, working them in a wide range of challenging environments for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting, Beach Hunting and even doing a bit of Electronic Prospecting, I have narrowed down my all-time favorite models.

Today, that list of my top favorite Tesoro's include the Bandido II µMAX, Mojave, Silver Sabre µMAX and Vaquero (in alphabetical order, not by favorite pick).  If I had a larger den to display ALL the Tesoro models I have enjoyed, it would include the Inca, Bandido, Bandido II, Silver Sabre II, Pantera, and a really nifty nugget hunter the Diablo µMAX.  But I have settled on keeping 3-5 of my favorites on-hand for frequent use that are also lighter-weight compared with most of the earlier designs.

Note, if you will, that the Tejón is not in my list of favorite Tesoro models.

 

(For those not familiar with this unit:)  Apparently on the plus side it has dual discrimination, which allows you to set one in all-metal and the other in some kind of discrimination (for example, cut out iron) and then switch back and forth using the 3 position toggle switch beneath the control box (3rd position being pinpoint mode).  If I understand correctly, you get higher sensitivity in all metal so you could search in that mode and easily flip over to discriminate to check the target's conductivity (above/below your set threshold).... I don't consider the *Dual Discrimination* feature to be a plus.  I will replace the Bandido II µMAX (microMAX) that was among the stolen detectors from me last month because there are times that I like to hunt in the Threshold-based All Metal mode then quickly shift to the motion-based Discriminate mode to check a target.  A Bandido II µMAX has that toggle-select function.

Most of the time, however, I search in the Disc. mode and only use the All Metal Pinpoint function to isolate a target, or maybe to size and shape a target.  That can be accomplished with a momentary function of a pushbutton Pinpoint mode using my Silver Sabre µMAX or Vaquero.

With most Tesoro models, the Sensitivity control is only a function of the Discriminate circuitry and the All Metal mode is designed at the highest Sensitivity setting and isn't adjustable.  You can see that with the Vaquero as the gain adjustment doesn't effect the All Metal mode depth like it does the Disc. mode.

Since the Fisher 1260X, introduced in '82 as the first popular slow-motion Discriminating detector, featured the *Dual Discrimination* function, I have not had anyone show me a really practical way to use that type of set-up that would be useful to the mass market of detecting hobbyists.  One of the design testers of the prototype was a big fan of the 1200X series from Fisher and I believe was instrumental in encouraging Jack Gifford to design a model to try and rival that Fisher series.

But there was a problem with that introduction.  The Tejón was introduced in 2003, I believe, and by then Fisher had pretty much parted ways with that old Dual-Disc. concept because the industry, as a whole, wasn't using it.  The 'traditional' approach of using one Disc. mode was totally functional and even Fisher had gone away from what they brought to market.  Remember, Fisher's first 1260X came out in 1982 and the Tejón in 2003.  Unfortunately, as much as I really enjoy my favorite Tesoro models, they just haven't seemed to keep up with industry trends, and the Tejón's 'new' features came along 21 years after Fisher's introduction.

 

On the minus side, it's about 3/4 lb heavier (some of this being due to the batteries:  8 AA vs. single 9V).  It runs at a higher frequency (17.5 kHz vs. 14.5 kHz) but I wouldn't think that is a big minus.  It also doesn't have the +/- 0.2 kHz frequency shift/tweak option of the Vaquero. ... I like using AA batteries and all of my detectors are so powered, except for my Tesoro's and my Nokta/Makro Pinpointers.  I had three Tejón units after they were first introduced and I didn't mind the 8-AA battery housing at the rear of the package, especially when using the standard 8X9 Concentric or a larger-size search coil.  It provided a little counter-balance for a bigger-size or heavier coil on the far end of the rod.

As for operating frequency (initially stated as being 17.5 kHz but the Owner's Manual says it is 17.2 to 17.6 kHz), the Tejón works OK for general hunting needs, and in theory the higher frequency might give it an 'edge' for lower conductivity objects such as gold nuggets, gold jewelry or US 5¢ coins and the like.  But in-the-field, I compared all the Tejón's I owned as well as the few people brought to a seminar, and I had better overall performance, including depth-of-detection, from the Vaquero using the same search coils.

 

Is the Tejon's dual mode just not useful in practice or is there something else that users have found that the ads aren't telling us?... Ads are just that ... ads.  Advertisements, usually by a manufacturer, to try and promote what they feel might make a product sellable.   The most useful feature on the Tejón, in my opinion, is the variable Tone Control, yet they have failed to incorporate that useful feature on any other model

I feel that dollar-for-dollar, feature-for-feature, the Vaquero is by far the better investment over the Tejón.  Just my opinion, of course, but it is based on personal experience and detecting time afield.

Monte

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From Tiftaafit: Speaking for my reasons for choosing the Vaquero over the Tejon...  I liked the pinpoint button option, but honestly, knowing now what I didn't know then... I rarely use it other than setting the ground balance... the Vaquero pinpoints easily without it... even with the 11x8 coil, and especially in AM. ... Tim, the Pinpoint button on the Vaquero is a very functional feature and one that I have enjoyed on a Silver Sabre µMAX since they were introduced twenty years ago (October of '97).  They had the button on the earlier Sidewinder models since early '94, but those models had some glitches in circuitry design so I didn't keep them around.  I was pleased to see the Pinpoint Push-Button included on the Vaquero & Cibola models and it was one reason I liked the Vaquero.  And yes, the Tesoro's can pinpoint quite well even in the silent-search Discriminate mode, especially with a Concentric coil over a DD design.

 

Also, I was sold on the weight difference between the 9V and AA's.. though it probably wouldn't make that big a difference when swinging.  When I got the Vaq, I was swinging an Etrac with a 15" WOT on the end... so a couple AA's over a 9V wouldn't make that much difference. ... The Vaquero's 6" coil is a bit heavier than the 6" coils I use on the general-use series, but any coil on a Tesoro has to be less fatiguing than a Minelab FBS device sporting a 15" WOT coil.

 

I guess the biggest deciding factor along with those rather minor differences was that I am mostly a turf hunter for coins, and hopes to get better and jewelry hunting.  So I was looking for a nice marriage of targeting higher conductive items, while being decent at hitting on shallowish gold.... The 14.5 kHz Vaquero is a very good unit so far as frequency is concerned.  I tend to prefer most detectors to operate somewhere in the 10 kHz to 15 kHz operating frequency, although there are times I will make use of a lower frequency or some models at a higher frequency.  All the Tesoro's in my Regular-Use Detector Team are in that 10 to 15 kHz range and all perform quite well for my Coin and Jewelry Hunting needs (and also tackle Relic Hunting sites just as well).

 

What I didn't know when I bought it, but found out when I started using it... I switch back and forth between AM and Disc to try and get a target id more than I thought I would, so the Tejon switch would be handy... but as I understand the supertune option better, the Vaquero might give me a combination of both AM and Disc, (though understandably less depth than AM and less accurate ID as in pure disc mode... but it is a trade off).... I do switch between All Metal and Disc, to check a target, but that is really easily accomplished by simply making use of the All Metal Pinpoint feature rather than making a mode-change switch from All metal mode to Discriminate mode.  In time, however, especially when  comfortable with any detector and especially the Tesoro's, I just take the 'Beep-DIG!' approach to success.

With any detector I keep my Disc. level low where I am just accepting iron nails (when using a multi-Tone ID detector like my Nokta CoRe, Relic or Impact or White's MX5, to a setting where I am just barely rejecting iron nails (which would be at the minimum Disc. setting with ED-120 Disc. Tesoro's or just increasing the Vaquero to barely reject common iron nails) and I might only use a higher Discriminate level once or twice in an entire year for a specific application.  I never "thumb the Disc. control" or do other things to try and capture any sort of Target ID with a Tesoro. 

I adjust for a proper slight audio hum Threshold setting, Ground Balance spot-on to just slightly negative, run the Sensitivity as high as tolerable w/o noise and chatter,  use my preferred lower Disc. setting, then start hunting.  When I get any good or reasonably iffy target response (Beep), I Pinpoint the target and recover it (DIG!).  No messing around with sizing-and-shaping most targets, or tinkering with controls to try and identify or classify the object.  The ONLY way to know for sure if it is a good or bad target is to take a look at it. (Read my signature below.)  

 

Having said all that, and having the Vaquero in my possession... it does everything I hoped it would do, and more (much better depth than I expected while in AM).  However, I admit, I might have the same exact comment if I had the Tejon in my possession rather than the Vaquero.  As CSN&Y said... Love The One You're With. :)  And I do.... Just keep on putting in time with the Vaquero to learn and master it.  It can make a great complement to what your Minelab detectors can do for you since their all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Monte

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On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 4:53 AM, Monte said:

Having owned, used, sold, and evaluated almost every land-based Tesoro model since July of '83, working them in a wide range of challenging environments for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting, Beach Hunting and even doing a bit of Electronic Prospecting, I have narrowed down my all-time favorite models.

Today, that list of my top favorite Tesoro's include the Bandido II µMAX, Mojave, Silver Sabre µMAX and Vaquero (in alphabetical order, not by favorite pick).

Monte,

I am curious to hear how you decide which of your lineup to choose.  For example, what prompts you to grab the Bandido over the rest, or when do you say.. "I'm going to hit this site with the Vaquero" etc. 

I try to approach my machine choice by the size of the field, the ground condition, and the targets I hope to find... but would be very interested in your decision tree.

Thanks, TIm.

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Just a few more questions, I promise!

I just (quickly) read the Vaquero manual on the Tesoro website.  A couple things I noticed which I'd like clarified/confirmed:

1) Is the all-metal mode really non-motion?  If so, is there a difference between actually switching to all-metal (temporarily) when hunting in discriminate mode and just using the pinpoint button?  And does the pinpoint button even do anything (extra) when you're in all-metal already?

2) The manual says 10-20 hours battery life (for the single 9V).  Is that your experience?  If so this sounds like a great application for rechargeable 9 volt batteries.  The non-rechargeables ain't cheap.

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I'm curious if the Black and Standard are the same circuitry and only differ in the color and coil they come with.

I looked to see if the black coil was sold separately on Tesoro.com but they don't list any separate coils, so I couldn't get an answer to that.

I was thinking of selling my (gray) Vaquero once I got the F75, but it may just live in my trunk as a quick grab machine. It certainly is nice and light!

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Interesting topic especially as i also have a Vaquero but its the UK version called the 'Laser Trident11 Extreme' the difference here is that the normal UK Vaquero ie Trident 11 is basically the same as the US Vaquero.

What makes the 'Extreme' version which is a modded version made by the UK service/repair centre Pentechnic is that it has been slightly modified inside and also a few other additions,fine tuning and basically its a 'steroid' version of the standard Vaquero,the freq is 18.5khz or possibly 19khz i stand too be correct on the 19 khz comment,but this is mainly aimed at our small silver hammered coinage and that is the main reason over the 14khz of a normal version of the machine,also it has the higher tone modification and also has a fixed and manual GB facility,one other major visual difference is that they also have the 'Tejon' battery box on which is 8x1.5v rather than the 1 9v battery.

Mine came with the 11x8 coil on although you can of course stipulate the 9x8 Concentric coil or even any other coil combination as you wish,but i was not sure about the 11x8 coil for some time,but it has grown on me over time,i also have and use alot the NEL Snake coil 6.5x3.5'' for really trashy roman/saxon sites this combination on the trashy sites makes it a deadly combination,especially when you have a field that has roman hob nails on from the roman shoes,but the small coil allows you too pluck decent roman coinage from between these beds of nails.

One of the main reasons that i bought a Vaquero or UK variation is that its ultra lightweight even with the 11x8 coil on it,i have wrist problems with my detecting arm and it makes no odds how hard i try with the other arm which is good,it just aint happening,the left arm just does not do the same as my regular detecting arm.Also of course the legendary Tesoro/Laser discrimination albeit its really optimised when using a Concentric coil but its pretty good also with the WS coils as well.

It will never be my main machine,no Tesoro will ever achieve that for sure,its a site specific use machine in my book and its good for that use only really,do i have other machines ?? yes i do infact i have many many machines once again some are for everyday use like say my Deus and T2,but i also have site specific use machines as well for depth ie hoard hunting that crown belongs too my Nexus machines and also Pulse machines for a couple of very highly mineralised sites,and a tremendous selection of coils for these detectors that i own/use,are they all used the answer is 'yes' of course some are used many times during the year and other's just a few times but the all earn there keep in some way.

The Vaquero is a good reliable lightweight workshorse and brings a smile and alot of enjoyment factor when i use it,does it find me anything ?? yes' of course it does,with our rich historical heritage in the UK it has found me some very nice finds as like all my other detectors as well.We are very luck in having as much history as we do here,if i am honest we tend too take it for granted.

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Tiftaaft on 11-07: Monte,

I am curious to hear how you decide which of your lineup to choose.  For example, what prompts you to grab the Bandido over the rest, or when do you say.. "I'm going to hit this site with the Vaquero" etc. ... When it comes to selecting a non-display Tesoro Bandido II microMAX and Vaquero, here are my  'think modes'  for picking one over the other.  First, I currently lack a Bandido II µMAX because mine was among the stolen detectors last month.  I hope it is recovered and returned, or I find another choice specimen because it is one of my favorite Tesoro's.

Most of the time I am searching very trashy sites and close to metal structures, metal fences or a lot of building rubble so I use a 6" Concentric coil.  Either the Bandido II µMAX or Vaquero will work okay, but I usually use them in the silent-search Discriminate mode and I also like to reject iron nails.

The Bandido II µMAX does that at the minimum Disc. setting, where I always leave it because I very seldom use more Discrimination than nail rejection.  Of the two, you can increase the Disc. setting of the Vaquero to try and duplicate the Bandido II µMAX performance ... but ... the Vaquero does tend to be just a little bit noisy or chattery in many sites.  More than the other unit.  Still, the Vaquero can work okay for this and today, without the Bandido II µMAX, I grab the Vaquero most of the time.

Sometimes I like to search a wide open area with limited targets, good or bad, using the Threshold-based All Metal mode, and make a quick-change to the Discriminate mode to check or analyze a located target, then quickly return to the All Metal mode.  For this, I would grab the Bandido II µMAX because it has the toggle switch for quick mode-change.  The Vaquero would require you to twist the Disc. knob out of the clicked All Metal setting, adjust to the rejection level you want, then rotate the knob fully counter-clockwise to the clicked All Metal mode.

 There are times I want to accept more targets while in the Discriminate mode, even down as low as accepting most nails and some other ferrous trash.  The Vaquero provides that option since it has the ± ED-165 Discriminate circuitry so it is the unit I grab first of the two models.

 At times, in wide-open areas with sparse, well scattered targets, ferrous and non-ferrous, I might also be able to benefit from some added depth-of-detection.  For that I grab my 'black' Vaquero and mount the 8X11 DD RSD coil that's already on a spare lower rod for quick changes afield.   The Vaquero gives me the better depth and the larger-size coil I need for those site challenges between those two models.

 

Tiftaaft on 11-07: I try to approach my machine choice by the size of the field, the ground condition, and the targets I hope to find... but would be very interested in your decision tree. ... As you can read above, that is basically what I try to do.  Consider the size of the site to hunt; factor in the amount of and density of targets at a site; and as noted determine if I want to get a hit on nails and more iron debris at a site or not.  Then, coil size and type become a consideration, too.

Monte

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