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Equinox Saltwater Clues


Cabo Chris

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How high is high? I opined on that back in September...

http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/4208-minelab-equinox-unveiled/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-45568

I will be frank. This is all going to be hair splitting stuff in saltwater due to the limitations imposed by a saltwater environment. Sand composition and even salinity are at minimum two factors that vary in all locations. Anybody desiring crystal clear answers will have to wait until Equinox is in the hands of at least dozens of well known third party water hunters at various locations around the country if not the world. That is where the final sorting and final consensus answers will develop. You have to remember that from Minelab's perspective, it does not matter in the end if some people decide they still prefer the Excalibur, others the CTX, and many the Equinox. They are highly focused on competing with the competition, not themselves.

I have had Equinox on both highly mineralized salt water beaches and freshwater beaches. I have been pleased and impressed with what I saw. But I was not dragging a CTX and Excalibur around with me and trying to decide which was better. People still argue about which is better in the surf, an Excalibur or a CTX, and they have had years to sort it out. There is no way that discussion will be resolved at this point as regards Equinox, especially since the firmware has still not reached a final resting place.

The Equinox for me personally is a detector that exists as a totality of its features and performance. It comes closer to superb across the board performance under a wider range of situations than any VLF detector I have ever used. But that does not mean it is absolutely perfect at everything. When this all shakes out there will be areas of unquestioned superiority and areas of "only" top notch performance. And then no doubt some areas that are just "good enough". Where those areas lie will vary by location and individual. I am one of those people that thrive on nuance and so I avoid the easy stock answers because I think that they are misleading and precisely the hype that people say they hate - and yet crave. A lot of that comes from me being realistic and knowing that I don't have all the answers and can't possibly address how Equinox will perform everywhere under all conditions. I don't think anyone can if they are being honest.

At the end of the day being an early adopter involves a certain amount of risk, and no amount of testing by handfuls of people can eliminate that. If you look at all that Equinox offers as a whole and still have doubts - just wait it out. Your current detectors will continue to work and life will go on. And when enough people around the world weigh in you will be on firmer ground. If however you want ironclad assurances of exact performance differences it is unfortunately not something I can in good faith give you without at least another year of use myself in more varied locations and circumstances. The basic reason is I have never had and do not have a final, completed machine to even report on. Nobody does.

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1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I have had Equinox on both highly mineralized salt water beaches and freshwater beaches. I have been pleased and impressed with what I saw.

What did you like the operation of the Equinox in Saltwater compared  CTX and Excalibur 

Your personal opinion

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My personal opinion is that VLF detectors are second tier devices for the underwater mineralized environments where I would normally hunt. Specifically Hawaii and Lake Tahoe. Both these locations have highly magnetic ground components; in the case of Hawaii the main culprit is volcanic basalt and at Tahoe high magnetite content soil and rocks derived from the surrounding granitic mountain materials.

Hawaii in particular I hunt regularly, and I have tried a variety of machines there over the years. My history regarding beach detecting has been loosely published on my website and documents my experimenting over the years. If you truly wish to know my personal perspective as regards beach detecting here are some direct personal reports:

Gold in Hawaii Winter 1999

Garrett Infinium in Hawaii February 18, 2003

White's Surf PI Pro & Platinum in Hawaii December 18, 2004

Beach Detecting with Minelab GP 3500 Fall 2005

White's M6 & Surf PI Pro in Hawaii December 20, 2005

Minelab X-Terra 50 at Cabo San Lucas Spring 2006

Gold and Silver with the Garrett ATX November 2013

Garrett ATX Review - Beach Detecting In Hawaii February 4, 2014

Garrett ATX Return to Hawaii April 10, 2015

A later summary of my thoughts can be gleaned from this article I wrote in January 2014, the Prospector's Guide To Beach Detecting. In that article I state:

"I am a PI guy myself however. I have used the Garrett Infinium extensively trying to deal with salt water and volcanic sand and hot rock conditions in Hawaii. I have had success with the model but it is difficult to deal with, suffering from an inability to ground balance into the salt range and susceptibility to EMI interference. Huge numbers of posts exist on how to try and get an Infinium to behave in salt water. The new ATX has taken steps to address these issues but the jury is out there yet. I will be giving the ATX a good go in Hawaii soon. My latest water detector is a White's Surf PI Dual Field to back up the ATX. I have had good luck in the past with the White's Surf PI models and recommend them for people interested in a waterproof beach PI. Again, a simple unit that gets the job done, and at a bargain price."

There is nothing about the Equinox that changes my thoughts on pulse induction versus VLF in a highly mineralized beach hunting scenario. The Garrett ATX is at this time my preferred device for these scenarios (I guess I need to update that last link a little). Minelab currently does not make an underwater pulse induction detector that appeals to me. The SDC 2300 is very expensive and is genuinely more of a prospecting device, my main issue being the very high price, which makes me leery of subjecting it to continuous use in saltwater. It also floats like a cork.

What I would really like to see from Minelab would be a stripped down GPX 5000 circuit stuffed into a CTX 3030 housing and that weighs no more than a CTX 3030. It would need a new range of waterproof coils to match. I think this would be a great beach machine proven mostly by the large number of people already using GPX detectors to hunt on beaches. Those people would prefer a waterproof machine with the same performance and I have no doubt relic hunters and more would sign up for such a device. If I could get that machine out of Minelab, it would replace my Garrett ATX. For now however the Garrett ATX will continue to be my preferred water hunting detector.

Oh yeah, back to how less powerful VLF detectors play into my thinking. I am willing to settle for them when my desire for discrimination outweighs my desire for sheer power. That being the case a secondary bonus would be that such a device will likely be lighter than my 7 lb ATX. The Minelab Equinox at a compact 2.9 lbs really floats my boat as such a second tier type device. It can easily without taking up almost any room or weight act as a backup to the ATX. Or, in cases where I am in a more casual mood, or perhaps traveling to a low mineral location like Florida, it would actually move into being my primary beach detector. I may be going to Florida this winter, and if so I would prefer to take the Equinox with a 15" x 12" coil instead of the ATX. In general pulse induction offers less benefit in clean white sand type scenarios, and so if I were to visit a Bahama type location like Grand Cayman or anywhere else where the beaches are white as snow the Equinox would move ahead of the ATX as my preferred beach detector.

I have had a couple Excaliburs and a couple CTX detectors. I just sold my last CTX and I do not intend to get another of either of those detectors again. The Equinox 800 will far better serve for me as a complementary VLF water hunting device to my preferred PI water hunting device. That will likely continue to be the ATX unless Minelab comes out with a good, solid waterproof PI detector. And truth be told, I am keeping an eye on the new Manta project at Fisher. Once upon a time I would still have been looking to White's for an underwater TDI Pro, but I have given up hope on that one.

I think what I like most about the Equinox 800 as a beach detector is that it offers me the capability to hunt effectively in saltwater while also giving me the ability to run hotter up on dry sand while hunting micro jewelry. This is another part of my beach detecting story over time and is best revealed in my links above regarding the Minelab X-Terra 50 and White's M6. The Gold Mode and the 40 khz option while in the Park or Field modes has massive potential for hunting micro jewelry.

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My detector needs are different than those of others and I view choosing a detector as selecting the right tool for the job.  My group of treasure hunters makes several Caribbean trips a year and our fearless leader has been doing this since the Eighties.  Sorry to repeat myself... we have tried just about every water machine and custom jobs made and for us the Minelab Excalibur finds the most gold in the least time- by far!  When new treasure hunters join us we strongly advise using an Excalibur and when they don't, they find the least gold or none at all, including seasoned PI users.  Why?  Because BBS lets one cherry-pick on short vacations.  (I'll be the first to say despite this the Excalibur is poor in heavy black sand)  Not bragging, only want to support my claims- on some good vacations I've scooped more than 200 pieces of gold jewelry using an Excalibur in 10 days!  So have others in my group and why we use BBS.

I have suggested to ML many times to build a simpler and smaller Excalibur for finding mainly gold and platinum jewelry in the sea.  Something lighter and easier to travel with, so one can travel with a back-up.  I made several suggestions such as eliminating pinpoint and discrimination.  ( We hunt by ear/tone response and never use discrimination)  I also suggested this to Whites Electronics thinking perhaps BBS patents were expired?  Whites told me they were working on a new water machine and one that combined VLF and PI technologies!  Wow, where is it?

I remember when the AT Pro came out and thought... now this is what I have in mind for travel.  Garrett flat out told me it worked well in saltwater, so I bought 2 to test with dreams of traveling with 2 AT Pros.  Here in Washington State... total AT Pro failure in our saltwater- nothing would quiet it down.  Garrett gave me some advice and on my next Caribbean trip packed an AT Pro.  Wow, I got it to work in the Caribbean salt but had to lower sensitivity to the point it would barely detect a gold test ring 2 inches in sand- Total failure for my needs, despite the AT Pro being a good detector.

I love this hobby and could write on and on... and why I will mention believe it or not the newer 8 inch DetectorPro Underwater is a fantastic travel machine!  It packs small, has 50 hour built in rechargeable battery, works at most Caribbean beaches and is remarkably sensitive to small gold!  On one trip side by side to an Infinium and Excalibur, the Underwater hit on a small gold earring the other 2 machines could not see!  I can see traveling with just 2 Underwaters for general water hunting Fresh/salt.  My reservation is while using an Underwater one has to recover more surf targets than with an Excalibur which permits better cherry picking of targets more likely to be gold in less time.

When the Equinox was announced.... Finally, a small waterproof affordable multi frequency machine!    I have visions of the Equinox replacing my Excaliburs.  A new lightweight, small, screened and easy to pack water machine!  In my mind the Equinox was my new Excalibur and should accept that might not be the case.  Clearly the Equinox will be a great detector.  At first I read right over ML saying Multi-IQ handles salt almost as good as BBS/FBS and did not want to see that Cooling sentence.  I kind of expected the Equinox to be as good as BBS in the salt.  OK, almost as good is not bad and at least 75% as good, or perhaps 95% as good... which would be great and what I still want to expect!  Make it So!  Even if the Equinox is not as good in saltwater as BBS/FBS, perhaps its other technologies such as fast recovery speed will make up any differences?  My concern is when dunking an Equinox in saltwater how will sensitivity need to be adjusted?  I still have high Equinox expectations for my needs and obviously the only way to find out is to put the Equinox up against an Excalibur in The Caribbean Sea!  I'm crossing my fingers for sure.  Again Minelab, thank you for bring out such wonderful and new technologies!                       

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Thanks Chris and I get exactly where you are coming from. Like I said in my post, there are many places where a VLF is preferred over a PI. My post was to highlight just how differently people's needs and desires are and what suits one person does not suit another. The thing is, I can only vouch for what suits me. I am not trying to sell anyone on Equinox and so I refuse to go out on a limb with anything but the most conservative of statements. I would much rather have you try an Equinox and think it was better than I let on. I would hate it if you got an Equinox and then were disappointed because I lead you to believe it was something it is not.

I have never paid attention to anything people say about detectors except in a cursory fashion. My needs are my needs and the only way I know to sort out what works for me is to get them and try them. For anyone serious about this I see no other way. However, if anyone wants to buy me a ticket to the Caribbean I will pack Equinox up and go and test it against an Excalibur and post my thoughts. :smile: I bet if I did that it still would be questioned however. Some things a person just has to find out for themselves.

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Hey, Steve, I will buy your gas to San Diego...and fix you chili....

Not the  Caribbean  but the weather is pretty dang nice right now!

I know you won't come down as you are very busy-however, I would love to see the Equinox in action, in person.

guess I will have to wait like the rest of us mere mortals.

thanks for All The Info

fred

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As always, very thought out essay on detecting machines.

Ever since Minelab announced the Equinox, top players have really been offering specials on combos to draw attention from Minelab to them.  Frankly it's not working very well.  And the other day I heard 1st Texas is in the process of major layoffs.  Not good for them or the ones loosing their jobs.  That being said, I've lost all confidence in 1st Texas releasing anything new for 2018, especially the VLF flavor.   I believe they started running specials in hopes of keeping their loyal users but I don't think it worked.

 

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On 12/11/2017 at 10:52 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

How high is high? I opined on that back in September...

http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/4208-minelab-equinox-unveiled/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-45568

I will be frank. This is all going to be hair splitting stuff in saltwater due to the limitations imposed by a saltwater environment. Sand composition and even salinity are at minimum two factors that vary in all locations. Anybody desiring crystal clear answers will have to wait until Equinox is in the hands of at least dozens of well known third party water hunters at various locations around the country if not the world. That is where the final sorting and final consensus answers will develop. You have to remember that from Minelab's perspective, it does not matter in the end if some people decide they still prefer the Excalibur, others the CTX, and many the Equinox. They are highly focused on competing with the competition, not themselves.

I have had Equinox on both highly mineralized salt water beaches and freshwater beaches. I have been pleased and impressed with what I saw. But I was not dragging a CTX and Excalibur around with me and trying to decide which was better. People still argue about which is better in the surf, an Excalibur or a CTX, and they have had years to sort it out. There is no way that discussion will be resolved at this point as regards Equinox, especially since the firmware has still not reached a final resting place.

The Equinox for me personally is a detector that exists as a totality of its features and performance. It comes closer to superb across the board performance under a wider range of situations than any VLF detector I have ever used. But that does not mean it is absolutely perfect at everything. When this all shakes out there will be areas of unquestioned superiority and areas of "only" top notch performance. And then no doubt some areas that are just "good enough". Where those areas lie will vary by location and individual. I am one of those people that thrive on nuance and so I avoid the easy stock answers because I think that they are misleading and precisely the hype that people say they hate - and yet crave. A lot of that comes from me being realistic and knowing that I don't have all the answers and can't possibly address how Equinox will perform everywhere under all conditions. I don't think anyone can if they are being honest.

At the end of the day being an early adopter involves a certain amount of risk, and no amount of testing by handfuls of people can eliminate that. If you look at all that Equinox offers as a whole and still have doubts - just wait it out. Your current detectors will continue to work and life will go on. And when enough people around the world weigh in you will be on firmer ground. If however you want ironclad assurances of exact performance differences it is unfortunately not something I can in good faith give you without at least another year of use myself in more varied locations and circumstances. The basic reason is I have never had and do not have a final, completed machine to even report on. Nobody does.

Excellent Steve...just excellent.

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