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Equinox and Electrical Interference


Boandtia

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8 hours ago, vfp7 said:

I would like to know more precisely how this function works.
Does it work as a linear filter or are different algorithms used depending on the parameter set?

I am sorry - I don’t know. I am not a detector designer or engineer. My function with Minelab is to try different things and to report on what works or not. I don’t ask how they program the detector and would not expect an explanation most of the time even if I did ask. Minelab is very tight-lipped about how they do what they do, and even signing an NDA does not mean they are going to give me proprietary information. Everything is very much on a need to know basis, and my role does not include much need to know these things. It is very likely that you are far more intelligent on these things than I am. The only part I am good at is using a detector and getting it to do what I want it to do. If I can’t get it to do what I want, I tell them. Sometimes my concerns are addressed - sometimes other concerns are more important than mine.

I am not ignoring most of your posts and suggestions out of any desire to do that. It is simply that dealing into the internal workings of a detector is something you know far more about than I. My apologies if it appears to be anything other than that.

So while I can tell you that the Noise Cancel function works well, I can’t tell you specifically why or how it works well because I just don’t know.

If there was enough interest I could set up a technical discussion forum, but I would need somebody smarter than I to moderate it.

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11 hours ago, vfp7 said:

I would like to know more precisely how this function works.
Does it work as a linear filter or are different algorithms used depending on the parameter set?

Is your curiosity about knowing the details on this just intellectual curiosity or would it have some bearing on how you would utilize the detector?  Even as an engineer, I personally couldn't care less about how they do it as long as it works (but that's just me, it shouldn't dissuade you from getting the answers you seek if intellectually curious).  As a detectorist,  I would only care if that knowledge is essential to how I would operate and get optimal performance out of the detector.  Since it is just an on demand thing rather than an adjustable parameter, I don't see much value in determining the inner workings of noise suppression in the Equinox.  Multi IQ, however, I am very interested in especially how it is implemented differently in the varoius detecting modes.  That would give me some insight into, for instance, whether beach mode might make sense to run in certain mineralized soils (making this up for illustrative purposes).  Minelab has given some info but is definitely protecting their "secret sauce" for now.  Whether they are being secretive because they are still tweaking Multi IQ or because the info remains proprietary will determine whethervwe learn more about its inner workings in the future, I guess.

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Cool but having trouble figuring out what this has to do with the Equinox which is not a PI machine.  Plus as an owner of a GPX, seeing one all splayed out like C3PO in The Empire Strikes Back made me a little squeamish.  Finally, I am not seeing how this mod could seriously challenge a GPZ which is a completely different technology altogether.  But cool nevertheless.  Thanks for sharing.

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10 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

  Multi IQ, however, I am very interested in especially how it is implemented differently in the varoius detecting modes.  That would give me some insight into, for instance, whether beach mode might make sense to run in certain mineralized soils (making this up for illustrative purposes).  Minelab has given some info but is definitely protecting their "secret sauce" for now.  Whether they are being secretive because they are still tweaking Multi IQ or because the info remains proprietary will determine whethervwe learn more about its inner workings in the future, I guess.

Chase,

I couldn't agree with you more, here.  I sure do hope Minelab provides this; nothing worse than having settings on a unit that are "briefly referred to" in the manual, but not explained -- in terms of what the engineer's objective was when designing the mode or setting.  On the other hand, if information was provided so as to help users to understand not ONLY what the mode or setting is designed to do, but why/how it's trying to do so, then a user might more easily be able to logically anticipate OTHER scenarios or conditions or objectives where using that mode or setting might be an appropriate choice.  Instead, we are left to stumble about in the dark, experimenting blindly with different combinations of settings and modes, and trying to eventually figure out "what works" in a given site, but maybe never really knowing "why," and thus -- not knowing how to determine when those same modes and settings might succeed or fail at a different site, or in a different scenario.  In other words, a manual saying "Park mode is designed for hunting in parks or yards.  If you wish to detect in a park or yard setting, switch to park mode" is next to useless.

I know not everyone cares about such details, but I sure do -- I like to know what the implications are every time I push a button or change a setting, and how that button push or setting change might positively OR negatively affect OTHER settings or modes I might be running at the same time.

"Black boxes," so to speak, are my bane.  When all the logic is withheld from the user, and instead happens "behind the scenes" -- with the end user simply told "do this," then there's no way for the user to understand in what specific scenarios the "black box" is best utilized, what possible "failure modes" exist (with respect to whatever the "black box' is trying to do), and how to adjust when whatever the black box is designed to do is not working according to plan...

I guess that's my long-winded way of saying, "I agree with you, Chase!"

Steve

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Having worked for IBM on the leading edge of technology.  I too, want as much information that I can get to better understand what the Equinox does and can do.  But then on the other side, no information can lead to a lot of experimenting to find out what works best for your type of detecting.  So if we share what we learn using the Equinox.  We all will gain more knowledge faster about the new technology that the Equinox  uses.

Terry

 

 

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Very true, Terry.  In the absence of the info we seek coming from Minelab, those of us here "putting our heads together" and sharing experiences, effects of setting adjustments, etc. will certainly help to shorten the learning curve...

Steve

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Guest Tnsharpshooter

Knowing the why's behind a detector's inner workings is no guarantee one will ever get proficient with.  Besides it is not like we can see emi can we?  My electronics background tells me the system is monitoring spikes (noise) and monitoring different channels, and assigns the cleanest " at the time"  for actual use.  The process must be a bit complicated and or costly. Why? Not a whole of of manufacturers provide on their detectors.  IMO all flagship metal detectors should have.  Silent emi, manually selecting channel(s)  is for the birds! 

I guess I could say here.  If the Minelab engineers spelled this noise cancel capability out for me in great detail, what would I still do in the end?  Do a noise cancel and hunt, right?

Sorta like tuning a radio, one of those with digital readout.  Yeah an electrical engineer sure could explain it to me in great detail, in the end as a user, all I will do is tune the radio by turning or pushing a button to my station.

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8 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Cool but having trouble figuring out what this has to do with the Equinox which is not a PI machine

The CTX 3030 machine transmitting device - the same  5:30 The Noise Cancel function Offset

 

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Steve....... you confused me when you said it had 19 channels then went from - to + digits.   Is this different than FBS which has 11 channels each with random freqs?   Ive been on the beach to long so you may have to break this down lol.  YOu push noise cancel....... then it runs thru these channels or you can manually set... -9 ect?   what confused me is the digits you listed since noise cancel is normally just a push of the button and we have no idea whats going on .... just that it works lol.

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