Target ID For US Coins??

[Steve Herschbach]

46 minutes ago, Cabin Fever said:

I apologize for my part in this. Good information is now lost do to my post..  Time for me to reevaluate the way I respond to forum posts for this is starting to become a pattern for me... Again, I’m sorry..

Bryan

Bryan, it was not you. More posts in a similar theme piled on and so this is not about or aimed at any person. I was leery of posting the photo in particular because of the thousand unintended words it invoked.

Take 50 bottle caps, air test them with a CTX and post a photo of the 50 caps along with the target id information. All targets have to read someplace, so have at it.

Now, when you post those results, does it mean the CTX is a bottle cap digging monster? No. Most would say just the opposite. “But hey, what about that picture of all the bottle caps dug with the CTX?” says everyone else.

And that was where this was heading. From here on out I will pay attention to any bottle caps I actually dig and perhaps discuss those, but trying to air test caps dug with other detectors was apparently not a good idea. I should know better - I hate air tests. All that matters is what I dig or don’t dig, and bottle caps have not been an issue for me.

[Bayard]

4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

 And although I have not had an issue digging bottle caps with Equinox it was promptly misinterpreted as meaning I am out digging lots of bottle caps with the Equinox. The post and those that followed have therefore been deleted.

I didn't have any such misinterpretation.  What I read is that crown caps report in the same range as pull tabs.  If true, that may be a problem for those of us seeking war nickels and other deep nickels. 

Regardless, I don't think any posts should be deleted unless they are clearly in violation of the forum rules.

[dewcon4414]

I had no problem with mine being deleted Steve..... i understand why.   But i think you know that bottle caps are the one beach target that with a little depth can be iffy good targets.... thus the huge interest in where they fell.   In all fairness ...... it was about coins.  

[Steve Herschbach]

I have been doing the best I can to provide as much information as possible while working around a non-disclosure agreement. I would hope that has earned me just a little understanding and forbearance from people when I feel like I need to backtrack a little. For those who have extended me that courtesy, I thank you.

[Mountain Mike]

I personally found the post VERY encouraging. 

[Go-rebels]

Steve, how much variability are you seeing in dug nickels?  Have you dug any deep, black Buffalos?  Do those read as "13?"

Thx and keep up the good work.

[Chase Goldman]

55 minutes ago, Go-rebels said:

Steve, how much variability are you seeing in dug nickels?  Have you dug any deep, black Buffalos?  Do those read as "13?"

Thx and keep up the good work.

Oh no, not Nickels again!  Lol

Just poking fun.

Seriously though, not sure if Steve has an answer for you, but discussing that level of minute detail regarding visual Target IDs for a very specific target in the absence of audio ID, mode, site, and depth data may not be all that productive, especially if you are considering that at this point you are only getting essentially a single data point.  

However, that sounds like a GREAT question to ask a larger population of Equinox users after the product is released into the wild.

When we can get a broader population of Equinox users and the resulting access to a good deal more data including first hand data then we should find out more useful contextual information on specific targets.  Especially since nickels (like gold alloys), as mid conductors, are a notoriously difficult target for any detector to differentiate from mid conductive trash like pull tabs and mixed metal bottle caps, it will be interesting data that can be useful in truly assessing the Equinox's capabilities.

[Steve Herschbach]

I have dug one Buffalo nickel and one war nickel so far with the Equinox, and both rang up a solid 13 just like other nickels, which totally surprised me. In one experiment of 35 nickels dug in a row I dug three crown caps. Now these were run of the mill down to 6" type nickels but all solid 13 readings. The big offender trash wise is the classic light square tab, that rings up a nice solid 13 also. Those however are usually quite shallow targets.

What I see with Equinox on coins in my magnetite laden ground running full tones wide open is that non-ferrous signals fade into ferrous at some point. Shallow coins have a big, solid target id. As the targets get deeper, the signal gets smaller and fainter - good modulation. But the target id simply stays the same all the way to the point where the magnetite overwhelms and the target shifts to ferrous. At the bitter edge the signal may be predominately ground signal with a tiny non-ferrous squeak breaking through, but that squeak will produce an accurate target id number.

Chase is correct in that it is very hard to rely on just one data point, and most of my caution revolves around just how aware I am that what I see is only valid for me on my ground, and I am very leery of extrapolating that elsewhere. This is the primary problem of an early release with few people saying anything - you just do not have enough data from enough sources to be able to get the big picture. That is why as much as I am trying to give out accurate information I strongly encourage anyone with serious doubts to just wait it out.

The only coin that seems to have much variability is the pennies. Most coppers show up at 25 -26 but there is quite a range in penny composition that along with corrosion will have pennies dropping lower to 22 - 23 - 24. I have no Indian Heads but I am sure they cluster closer to the zinc penny area.

Another biggie with Equinox is no upscaling, or nearly none. One of my biggest problems in this soil, especially with Euro machines, was aluminum upscaling into the dime range. Nice little high tone, and it is a rolled up beavertail. That happens here a lot with many detectors, and not at all with Equinox. That one factor alone sets it apart from a lot of single frequency detectors.

[Steve Herschbach]

OK, after seeing how nickels rang up at 13 I did an experiment. I notched out every single number on the Equinox except 12 - 13 - 14 and dug every target that rang in that range. Here were the results. The nickels were all 13 as were most of the square tabs. One crown cap read 13. Everything else was 12 or 14 or 12/13 and 13/14 readings. If I did it again and just went for the 13, I figure the trash would be a third less, but same number of nickels.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

But the target id simply stays the same all the way to the point where the magnetite overwhelms and the target shifts to ferrous.

That is what is exciting me about this detector.  Hope it shows before I hit Culpeper again.

And you blew my socks off with that experiment, Steve.  Pretty cool stuff.  Especially the rock solid TID for that entire population of nickels at various corrosion states.