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A Discussion About Aptx Low Latency And The Equinox


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Yesterday, I used my APTX LL headphones exclusively for the first time during a 90 minute hunt with my 600. + sign indicating paired LL was active and all working well. 

What I found though was that the Low Latency lag of 40ms is still quite noticeable, and slows down recovery of finds.  Maybe I'm oversensitive to lag, but there is clearly a difference between wired direct (or speaker), and APTX LL.  Having to backtrack for a signal that was just heard, and finding that exact spot again is a little frustrating when I'm used to instantly seeing the position of the coil when hearing the detector signal on wired HP's or on speaker. Waggling is also slightly different. The hands-free, wire-free benefit is certainly good and convenient, but for me, it just didn't feel right at 40ms lag.  At this point, I will probably NOT use LL headphones except when it is absolutely necessary for whatever reason. I think that the WM08 that will come with my 800 will likely be a much better solution, with a 17ms Lag vs 40ms with LL. Certainly, the LL's are a big step beyond 100ms BlueTooth, but still not "just right".

As for the LL Headphones...I own the ArchMage SoundClean9's ($45 at Amazon), and they are really nice, comfortable, and sound great. They have a 50 hour operational capacity following a full 4-hour  charge. They fit my big head, even over a Minelab baseball cap. There are a lot of "Pro's" about these headphones, but also a few cons that will be found in other headphones as well.

Hunting in high temperature, high humidity areas like Florida, I am concerned about the longevity and durability of the ear cushions as they are saturated by salty sweat while hunting in the field. I think the only real solution is pure rubber cushions, which would obviously not be as comfortable. Not sure if any manufacturer has a real solution for this problem.

The ArchMage headphones controls are well located, and they work well, but are not raised and palpable without knowing exactly where they are while wearing the headphones. Not that big a deal, but raised buttons would have been a better design.

I do really like the headphones, and may use them wired in cooler conditions when warranted, without APTX...just direct.

So...this is all just my own $.02. Others may differ...but most importantly, this is my 200th post on this forum, and now I'm SILVER!!! ?

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More than likely I'll be using the WM 08 module along with my Koss QZ99's for land hunting.  Could even tuck the module inside waders for shallow water hunting.  I'm gun shy on using the ML wireless phones in the water for fear of them slipping off.

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Pretty much figured out the same thing with the ML80's compared to wired or using the WM-08 and wired earbuds. Had been using the WM-08 and earbuds for a few hunts and then went wireless with the ML80's and it took a target or two until I came to the conclusion there wasn't anything wrong with me....lol.  Can be frustrating digging and being off by a scoop. Haven't used the ML80's since!

Cliff

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I am really, really surprised that anyone notices delay with aptX-LL.

Here is a video that shows (i.e. illustrates audibly) the "delay" associated with aptX-LL, aptX, and standard Bluetooth (SBC).  AptX-LL should be essentially imperceptible.  I wonder if there are issues with your ML80 headphones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_bypcPW5O4&feature=youtu.be

Steve

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9 minutes ago, steveg said:

I am really, really surprised that anyone notices delay with aptX-LL.

Here is a video that shows (i.e. illustrates audibly) the "delay" associated with aptX-LL, aptX, and standard Bluetooth (SBC).  AptX-LL should be essentially imperceptible.  I wonder if there are issues with your ML80 headphones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_bypcPW5O4&feature=youtu.be

Steve

I tried my friends for a couple hours Friday and didn't have any issues with lag.

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10 minutes ago, steveg said:

I am really, really surprised that anyone notices delay with aptX-LL.

Here is a video that shows (i.e. illustrates audibly) the "delay" associated with aptX-LL, aptX, and standard Bluetooth (SBC).  AptX-LL should be essentially imperceptible.  I wonder if there are issues with your ML80 headphones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_bypcPW5O4&feature=youtu.be

Steve

Steve, the problem is that the comparison is with audio-video, which is entirely different from coil sweeping.
I found that in order to more fully "see" where my EQ is signaling, I had to significantly slow down my swing speed. Otherwise, the coil would have already passed the signal when it is heard....requiring backtracking to determine exact positioning.

I did test the LL headphones with video, and like the YouTube spot you linked to, I could discern no lag. That is not the case, at least for me, with the detector. I have a pretty "tuned" ear for that kind of thing, as a helicopter pilot, and long-time voiceover artist where I have dubbed foreign movies into English.  For me, LL was just not quite right. I'm sure it is no problem for others. I expect the WM-08 will be better.

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Elf --

From my perspective, the comparison is not audio-video, but audio-audio.  You are hearing a "wired" connection and a "wireless" connection, AT THE SAME TIME, both playing the same source.  If the audio from the wired connection (zero delay) and the aptX-LL connection are being heard by the human ear as occurring "at the same time" (no "echo"), then that means that whatever amount of delay is inherent in aptX-LL (32-40ms) is "imperceptible," as compared to a "zero delay" baseline, right?  

This is why I really wonder if there is something wrong with your unit itself...

Steve

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When my 800 arrives, I will check again with both the ML-80's and the ArchMage's.  I don't really need APTX or wireless for my 600 though, because once the 800 is in hand, the 600 will be dedicated to Florida beach hunting, and probably with the WP phones, wired.

Frank

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Makes sense, Elf.  When beach hunting, you'll be using a "wired" connection, so it's all a moot point.  

I'm not trying to make a mountain of a molehill, just trying to find out if there may be an issue where your machine SAYS it's using the low-latency codec, but it's actually not  -- and is instead using a standard Bluetooth connection and thus the delay you are experiencing...

Steve

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7 minutes ago, steveg said:

Makes sense, Elf.  When beach hunting, you'll be using a "wired" connection, so it's all a moot point.  

I'm not trying to make a mountain of a molehill, just trying to find out if there may be an issue where your machine SAYS it's using the low-latency codec, but it's actually not  -- and is instead using a standard Bluetooth connection and thus the delay you are experiencing...

Steve

Nope, because I had those MPOW supposed LL headphones that were definitely not, and would not pair to the "+". They had serious 100ms lag. The ArchMages were clearly LL capable and immediately paired with the 600 with LL "+". BIG difference in the lag, but for me, still discernable. 

BTW...shouldn't you be in bed??!!  You're on nights right now, right??

Frank

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