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White's To Produce 5.3 (6") Concentric Coil For MX Sport?


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This thread has green moss hanging off of it it’s so old . I done a search for the coil on White’s site and nothing came up.

So Mr Tom you’re the man in the know and I want to know if I can buy the 6 inch concentric coil for the Sport?

Chuck

 

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Hey Tom

Thanks for the quick reply. Write my name down on White’s bathroom wall saying Chuck want one when they come out.

Chuck

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A man couldn’t ask for more! 

I always wanted to be number one even if it’s the first name written on the outhouse wall.

I’m lost for words Tom so I’ll just say thank You.

Chuck

PS Now if that don’t bring a tear to your eye then nothing will.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Monte,

Show me the windings inside a 5.3 eclipse coil and then tell me that its a 6.5" coil.   There is a reason its called a 5.3 and it has nothing to do with 6-1/2 inches.   5.3" coil, then a big jump to 9.5" .  Now I often prefer and  use DD coils but for some types of targets with the V3 the concentric work better.   A true 6.5" or 7" concentric would be a wonderful addition and would fill the gap between the 5.3" and the 9.5".  

HH

Mike

 

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On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 10:32 AM, Mike Hillis said:

Hi Monte,

Show me the windings inside a 5.3 eclipse coil and then tell me that its a 6.5" coil.   There is a reason its called a 5.3 and it has nothing to do with 6-1/2 inches.   5.3" coil, then a big jump to 9.5" .  Now I often prefer and  use DD coils but for some types of targets with the V3 the concentric work better.   A true 6.5" or 7" concentric would be a wonderful addition and would fill the gap between the 5.3" and the 9.5".  

HH

Mike

 

Mike,

Tardy getting here.  I've been busy detecting with some breaks in the winter weather and using the 6½" Concentric coil most of the time.  So, let's get to the 6½" coil topic ... AGAIN... even though I have discussed this on many different forums for a couple of decades now.  For fifty-three years of metal detecting and using countless brands and models and a wide array of search coils, it has almost always been the norm to describe a search coil by its physical outside measurement.  That is done to make a general, industry-wide base for comparison as well as to let the user know what sort of confined spaces a coil might or might not fit in.

White's, and many other manufacturers, have made 8" diameter search coils.  That is the actual measured diameter of the search coil (housing) not including a coil cover.  There might be subtle differences, like ±⅛" or ± ¼", and they round it to 8".  As I have stated before, we can get marketing people involved and that can mess things up, as it did for two White's search coils.

Back when they brought out the Quantum II and Quantum XT, they used the 8" coil on the Quantum II, but they changed the decal and renamed the coil a 7.8.  It was simply a marketing thing.  This was done at the same time they took their white-housing 600 Blue Max coil and changed the plastic color to black and relabeled it the 5.3 Black Max.

In a short period that was changed to the 5.3 BullsEye for the 6.59 kHz models, and 5.3 Eclipse was made for the MXT series and DFX and models to follow.  This goes back to a period of approximation that was then influenced my marketing ideas to try and have something 'new' or 'different.'  The 600 Blue Max was interesting in itself.

It wasn't 6.00, to maybe suggest Six . Zero Inches, it was simply '600.'  Six-hundred what?  Without any decimal point or fractional reference, it was a vague '600' something, but '600 'what?  We accepted it to imply a 6" diameter, just as White's used '800' to reference their 8" diameter search coils.  A reference to the outside diameter.

The goofy 5.3 idea was supposed to refer to the inside Transmit winding diameter to be different.  Well, it was.  It made a lot of people NOT be interested in it because they felt it was too small, thinking the overall-size was just over 5¼".    And you asked me:  "Show me the windings inside a 5.3 eclipse coil and then tell me that its a 6.5" coil. "  Okay ... IT IS A 6½" DIAMETER COIL.

You then stated: "There is a reason its called a 5.3 and it has nothing to do with 6-1/2 inches."  Correct.  It has to do with the fact they kind of named it for the internal diameter of the Transmit winding rather than use the customary external, physical diameter of 6½", but doing so is misleading to the consumers looking for any coil in a particular physical size.

I asked three different engineers on three or four occasions after they had changed the name from '600'o '5.3' to do me a favor.  Most shoppers don't even measure the coils, they simply go my the manufacturer's name to get an idea of the size, and now, I asked them, you have confused the issue my using the measurement of the Transmit winding, is that correct?  They replied Yes.  So I asked about that five-point three measurement, since it is supposed to be so important, a for them to tell me if that was the physical l]measurement from the center of the ending to the center of the winding?  Or was it from the inside diameter of the winding to the  inside diameter on the opposite side, or, perhaps it was a measurement from the outside of the winding across to the outside of the winding on the opposing side?

I couldn't get a clear answer and was told they would have to actually measure it.  I told them as engineers they ought to know, if it was all important, but to the consumers, they want to know what a physical measurement is.  You asked if I've seem the inside of the coils and Yes, I have numerous times.  Other coils too, such as the '950 you mentioned.  You refer to it as a '950' coil, which it is named, but have you seen the inside of the coil?  Have you measured the Transmit winding and does the coil's name reflect that winding size?

For whatever reason, White's was quite comfortable referring  to that coil, back in the 600 Blue Max era, as a 6" diameter coil.  It is certainly closer to that than a 5.-anything.   And I use 6½ Inch because I can easily use a ruler or tape measure and get a measurement and note what is either spot-on or rounded to a reasonably close physical measurement and call it as I see it.

This excellent size Concentric coil that I have made use of for many, many years on a wide range of White's detectors is, physically, a 6½" Concentric coil and that's what I'll call it.  I might slip after it is released as I don't doubt that White's will likely round the size measurement to 6" instead of 6½ and I'll call it a 6".

I like the 6½" Concentric better than the 7" DD Detech after-market coil, and the 950 is 'OK' for more open-area searches.  I do wish, however, they would dump that 'puffy' 950 coil and bring us the 9" Concentric 'spider' type coil.  It would also be a nice coil for both land and water hunting.

Monte

 

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Quote

The goofy 5.3 idea was supposed to refer to the inside Transmit winding diameter to be different

Thanks for replying back, Monty.

Getting to the meat....Normally the Transmit winding is the larger of the two coils, and is normally the diameter of the coil housing.  Yeah, not exact but close.  So an 8" coil form has a transmit winding seated close to the outside edge of the coil.  So we are good with saying its an 8" coil.   We don't pick on the 7.75 TX winding diameter.  We understand there is a tolerance for seating the winding.

Quote
  • The goofy 5.3 idea was supposed to refer to the inside Transmit winding diameter to be different.  Well, it was.  It made a lot of people NOT be interested in it because they felt it was too small, thinking the overall-size was just over 5¼".    And you asked me:  "Show me the windings inside a 5.3 eclipse coil and then tell me that its a 6.5" coil. "  Okay ... IT IS A 6½" DIAMETER COIL.

You then stated: "There is a reason its called a 5.3 and it has nothing to do with 6-1/2 inches."  Correct.  It has to do with the fact they kind of named it for the internal diameter of the Transmit winding rather than use the customary external, physical diameter of 6½", but doing so is misleading to the consumers looking for any coil in a particular physical size.

So if the transmit winding is 5.3 inches in diameter it doesn't matter what size housing you place it in, its still a 5.3" coil because coil size isn't determined by the package its housed in, its determined by the transmit loop diameter.   

Now, if you really meant to say the 5.3 refers to the RX loop diameter, then we are talking different.   Did you mean to say RX instead of TX? 

Or are you trying to say the 5.3 is the TX winding and that the RX winding is larger and closer to the 6.5" housing size?  That the coil is built in reverse from most other coils with a large RX winding and a smaller TX winding?

If the coil is standard concentric coil and the 5.3 refers to the TX winding diameter, then the RX winding is going to be 5.3 inches or less, maybe half.

Maybe Tom Bodkin  or Carl can jump in here and straighten this out.

  • Whats the diameter of the TX winding
  • Whats the diameter of the RX winding.

We don't need exact measurements as if we were building the coil.   Just close enough to answer the question.  What size coil is the 5.3 coil?  

Bottom line, Monte, is that you are stating the exact same thing I have been saying. It is a 5.3" transmit winding in a 6.5" housing.   Except you are ok with calling it and using it like it was a 6.5" coil and I am not.  

HH
Mike 

 

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For nearly everyone coil diameter is a measurement of physical size, nothing more. Internal windings are a different issue. How does this rationale work with DD coils? Figure 8 windings? Stacked co-axial?

Whatever, the 5.3 is what it is and people sure do seem to love it or hate it.

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I'm really just frustrated with the tool, Steve.   A 5" coil is too small, even if its is mounted inside a 6.5" hat when you need it to be larger.  I don't need the hat to be larger.  I need the thing inside the hat to be larger, or at least fill the hat.   Whats more is that I'm stumping for Whites to give us a 7" concentric while all around me others, some with a reputation of knowing what they are taking about,  are saying that a 5" coil in a 6.5" hat is perfectly fine, telling us to be happy and swing the hat, just forget and don't worry about the fact that the outside of the hat and the inside of the hat don't match, not even close. 

That is the hardest part of this industry.   Getting them to make us the proper tools.   We finally get a fantastic feature set and then we hamstring it with poor coil selection.    That is one of the things I really like about Tesoro and First Texas: their coil selection.  I wish First Texas coils would work on the V3 series.  That would be a hammer!!!!!  

Anyway...I'll try to let it go..... I will let go.   My last word and response to the matter.  

 

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