Equinox Issue With 2 Euro Coin & Trash Overlapping?

[vive equinox]

I hunt in europe.  

I resolved the problem beetween the pulltab and 2 euros.  It's easy with the tone break and pitch tone.  More easy for you because in your festival hunt i presume the 2 euros are not corrodate. 

But the pulltab in the beach is horrible. 

I had digged more than 100 in 6 hours. 

A gold ring i founded in this hunt is 14vdi.  Pulltab 13-14- . So i think it's not possible to resolve. 

 

[Chase Goldman]

26 minutes ago, Ringmoney said:

 

I know exactly know what you are talking about but the particular make up of the €2 coin makes it sound junky on most machines and thus VDI identification is a must. Just look at what changing the frequency on the nox above does to the vdi of the €2 which is very like what happens to crown caps. 

Thanks, that is interesting.  I think Canadian coinage has similar issues too.  Since the Equinox is firmware upgradeable maybe some changes down the road can help in this respect though a wholesale VDI overhaul would be unlikely.  I would still like to hear how it sounds initially (i.e., how much it bounces in Multi IQ) and as frequency is changed.

[Guest Tnsharpshooter]

52 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Thanks, that is interesting.  I think Canadian coinage has similar issues too.  Since the Equinox is firmware upgradeable maybe some changes down the road can help in this respect though a wholesale VDI overhaul would be unlikely.  I would still like to hear how it sounds initially (i.e., how much it bounces in Multi IQ) and as frequency is changed.

http://www.bcscta.ca/resources/hebden/chem/Coin Compositions.pdf

[Dug D]

Ringmoney, It sounds like you are mostly disappointed, the good thing is you might have found the perfect target for the next new machine to hit. Fine separation VDIs for specific coins from different countries might be the next new setting on a detector.

An adjustable VID scale, depending where you are?

[TripleT]

I'm on board for firmware to update for Canadian clad.  A 2 piece (toonie) $2 coin jumps around like crazy and looks like a rusted bottle cap...

[Ringmoney]

1 hour ago, vive equinox said:

I hunt in europe.  

I resolved the problem beetween the pulltab and 2 euros.  It's easy with the tone break and pitch tone.  More easy for you because in your festival hunt i presume the 2 euros are not corrodate. 

 

This is exactly what I was hoping to do, we will do a lot more testing to see if it can be done in our case but as they are so close I don't think it will be possible. Maybe we will just have to dig a certain amount of junk and then compare results to other detectors. Coins at the festival sites are not that corroded.

[Steve Herschbach]

One tip I can help with. Target id numbers vary slightly between Search Profiles. Two items that read the same in Field 2 may read slightly differently in Park 1 for instance. This is due to different frequency weighting and the imperfection of target id normalization.

Also, Iron Bias is not just for iron. It has varying effects on different target types and so is worth experimenting with. Faster recovery speeds can also accentuate the differences between round targets and irregular shaped targets. Round items retain signal strength better at faster recovery speeds while irregular targets get weaker and jumpier.

Look at it this way Ringmoney - if you ditch the Deus for the Equinox the worst that can happen is you trade a machine you hate for another one you hate! 

[LowTide]

The ID system on the Equinox is the way it is because it was specifically designed that way to address the targeted market segment for the detector.  The ID system is not the way it is because of an oversight, poor planning, or lack of familiarity with end user wishes.

Minelab is very methodical in attacking market segments.  They developed advanced PI technology and dominate the high end PI market.  They went after the low slow turf market with BBS/FBS and they dominate that market.  They developed the Xterra 70/705 to go specifically after the Whites MXT.  They developed the Go Finds to go after the Ace’s.  All of the aforementioned devices had very specific design criteria to attack a market segment.

The Equinox primarily was designed as an iron trash high speed detector to go after the XP and AT.  That is why it is so fast and has an iron bias setting which is an integral part of the Multi-IQ discrimination system.  With that thought in mind what happens to a detector’s ID of a non-ferrous target co-mingled with a pile of nails?  The answer is that it skews, and the more ID segments, the more it is going to skew.  To which there will be the complaint that the detector can’t “lock on”.  In this iron trash detecting application if they had made the ID 200 points wide the meter would be whiplash-ing wildly.  So having the ID be fairly stable in a difficult target environment has it’s advantages to address this market segment.

There is also a belly button factor at work.  Included with the detector there is a wide assortment of overlays in different languages.  So despite a U.S. user thinking the ID system should be U.S. specific and a U.K. user thinking it should be U.K. specific that is simply not realistic.  This is a world wide product.

In a nutshell here is Minelabs thinking.  If you go to a park that has cleaner ground, and then areas with trashier ground, they want you to break out an FBS for the cleaner areas.  And then after your arm gets tired, go back to your vehicle and get the Equinox and then attack the trashier area.  If you are a relic or saltwater beach hunter the Equinox is all you will likely need unless scuba diving.  If you are a casual prospector the Equinox will at least make you competitive.  The uptake is that if you are a serious hobbyist they want you to buy two models of their’s to cover most of your detecting needs.

Here’s a disclaimer, I don’t own an Equinox nor have any immediate plans to purchase one.  However I am enjoying the release of this product to no end because I am extremely frustrated with the complacency of U.S. manufacturers.  Boys the chickens have come home to roost!  And I will make a prediction, and that is that Makro will be the first to respond and in doing so may offer a wider ID span which will be good for the hobby and push Minelab.

[GB_Amateur]

9 minutes ago, LowTide said:

If you go to a park that has cleaner ground, and then areas with trashier ground, they want you to break out an FBS for the cleaner areas.  And then after your arm gets tired, go back to your vehicle and get the Equinox and then attack the trashier area.

Well, that may be their hopeful intent overall, but that simplistic goal won't work with many/most, and I suspect ML knows that, too.  Every detector manufacturer's primary goal is to make enough money to pay their employees and (hopefully) have enough left to reward their investors.  Either way they do that only by pleasing enough customers.

Satisfying egotistical and empathetic emotions also enter, but that doesn't pay the bills.  The bottom line is that the best detector from an engineering standpoint isn't going to be the best detector from a practical standpoint if it doesn't meet the users' needs and pricepoint.

It's easy for us to sit in the spectator section and criticize the other manufacturers, but IMO they are trying hard and feel the pain.  They aren't a bunch of lazy fat cats sitting idly by and counting the money.  They all are hurt by the bottom line (profit/loss), and they are unfairly smarting from people calling them 'complacent'.  I've been in their shoes.  The competitive world can be a painful experience.  But from that competition comes new and better products.  That's what I'm counting on.  It is a 'survival of the fittest' arena.  But the fittest aren't always the 'most fit' in the present snapshot.

[Sinclair]

7 hours ago, vive equinox said:

I resolved the problem beetween the pulltab and 2 euros.  It's easy with the tone break and pitch tone. 

But the pulltab in the beach is horrible. 

I had digged more than 100 in 6 hours.

Which settings do you use?

Yeah, old pulltabs have always been a problem.

For me those bottletops are the most annoying.. while I am learning to identify them, they seem to always ring up with different IDs.. and they cost time... plus if you don't dig 'em you'll always hear them next time

 

5 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

One tip I can help with. Target id numbers vary slightly between Search Profiles. Two items that read the same in Field 2 may read slightly differently in Park 1 for instance. This is due to different frequency weighting and the imperfection of target id normalization.

I've noticed that, but it always seems to be kind of a trade-off.. I'll try to chart that up. There are some other situations, where Multi Freq. does some strange things - particularly with on-edge lying items.