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Busho

Ground Tracking With Equinox

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Hi Equinox owners. I have had mine for several months but mostly used it for relics, now and then on gold in quiet ground, so mostly have not needed to even reall contemplate tracking. But now as the weather has really cooled off I have decided to try in more in various areas for gold. Now, when using Auto balance which I have up till now used it's all good. See the ground change raise n lower the coil, hear a variation, hit balance, see it change and go quiet. Ok. But I have tried Tracking and I see a ground colour, mineralisation, change, raise and lower the coil and there is ground noise. So, the ground balance I started in was say 15 by the numbers, but now it's changed whilst in tracking and still showing 15. But when I hit balance and pump the coil whilst holding it, it may go up to 60! Now thats a big change and the noise as I raised and lowered the coil corresponds with that, or agrees there is a significant change. But even though the tracking icon was shown and tracking chosen it didn't move from the initial balance. So I stop, press the track/balance and up it shoots to where it should be. My machine to me is just an manual balance, Auto balance detector and has no Auto Tracking.

I can balance say to 10, then manually change it to 70, or go into minus numbers, but when I put it into Track and raise and lower the coil, I can hear the pitch either rise or fall dramatically as I raise and lower it but nothing happens. Now and the a minor number change, but just by a few to several after repeated pumps, sometimes 20 to 30 pumps. Then it stops. Then I press and hold the button and it can change significantly by tens or more number values. 

How do you guys find yours performs in Tracking please?

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Sorry for any spelling grammar errors, I tried to fix them but it got worse pasting things all over the place.

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Tracking ground balance by it's nature responds relatively slowly to changes in ground phase (otherwise it would trigger on ferrous targets and/or cause enough variations in the balance setting that it would also contribute to ground noise).  Typically tracking ground balance works best when there are large variations in mineralization which is also the greatest (but not only) contributor to ground phase reading.  Most GB tracking schemes do not work well when the variations in mineralization are small and the change in ground phase reading is due to other constituents in the soil.  Without a mineralization change there is nothing to trigger the ground phase reading by the tracking "circuit".  That is why Tracking should not be used in low mineralized soil with high variations in ground phase or at sites with a high density of discrete ferrous targets.  Equinox does a great job of compensating for a less than ideal ground phase as the multifrequency scheme allows some compensation/cancellation of ground effects, but that can only get you so far if your ground phase is changing significantly.  The way that manifests itself is by audibly detecting ground noise (with discrimination off).  If you are hearing a lot of ground noise with a fixed ground phase reference (established by manual or auto pumping GB) or even in tracking.  Then you should probably do an auto or manual GB.  Otherwise, don't get too caught up in the ground phase numbers.  Note also, that the different multi frequency spectra used for each of the different search profile modes will often result in different ground readings for the same patch of ground which is why you should ground balance each mode you use separately.  If you are switching modes, and notice a SIGNIFICANT change in your original GB number while in tracking make sure of two things:  First, make sure you are indeed in tracking GB and have not just done a single point auto GB and second, make sure that each mode you are using has been GB initially to set a good starting point for the tracking algorithm.

What mode(s) were you using, BTW?

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1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Tracking ground balance by it's nature responds relatively slowly to changes in ground phase (otherwise it would trigger on ferrous targets and/or cause enough variations in the balance setting that it would also contribute to ground noise).  Typically tracking ground balance works best when there are large variations in mineralization which is also the greatest (but not only) contributor to ground phase reading.  Most GB tracking schemes do not work well when the variations in mineralization are small and the change in ground phase reading is due to other constituents in the soil.  Without a mineralization change there is nothing to trigger the ground phase reading by the tracking "circuit".  That is why Tracking should not be used in low mineralized soil with high variations in ground phase or at sites with a high density of discrete ferrous targets.  Equinox does a great job of compensating for a less than ideal ground phase as the multifrequency scheme allows some compensation/cancellation of ground effects, but that can only get you so far if your ground phase is changing significantly.  The way that manifests itself is by audibly detecting ground noise (with discrimination off).  If you are hearing a lot of ground noise with a fixed ground phase reference (established by manual or auto pumping GB) or even in tracking.  Then you should probably do an auto or manual GB.  Otherwise, don't get too caught up in the ground phase numbers.  Note also, that the different multi frequency spectra used for each of the different search profile modes will often result in different ground readings for the same patch of ground which is why you should ground balance each mode you use separately.  If you are switching modes, and notice a SIGNIFICANT change in your original GB number while in tracking make sure of two things:  First, make sure you are indeed in tracking GB and have not just done a single point auto GB and second, make sure that each mode you are using has been GB initially to set a good starting point for the tracking algorithm.

What mode(s) were you using, BTW?

Hi mate. Ill start again.

Just to give some history. Im not a newbie and started out with a Garrett groundhog decades ago. Owned every minelab auto tracker ever made.

Ok. Im in gold mode. No matter what I do, and yep the icon is on, like above, I can manually change the gb way out so that the detector howls from being out of balance but tracking dont budge and when it does its by just a few number. With the "tracking" icon showing. But if I hit the balance button, hold it, pump it, then it goes into balance. And yes I have tried the 2 frequencies and yes see that for each they can balance on a different value. But like in my first post its not the numbers, it's the detector audibly not in balance. I don't care what numbers show, I want a balance and Auto track does not deliver.  Do you get where I'm coming from. This is the worst so called auto tracking I have ever owned from minelab. Nothing in the past Gt, Ft, Xt, Gold Striker.......Eureka, Terra has been this weak at Auto Tracking. Is this a weakness of the EQX or an issue with mine? 

You'll notice in my first post I said I can take it way out of balance, so it is in essence now a huge ground difference, just like you said it needs to be to notice. You will see I said it doesn't notice or respond to it.

Just in case, yes I have lowered sens, upped it, lowered sweep speed, messed with every option it has. Nothing changes it. 

Like I asked in the OP, does yours track in auto track mode.

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The tracking on the Nox has confused me as well...I will say that in variable ground in the Sierras my machine seems to behave much better in tracking then in Manual which I was having to re GB every 10 feet it seemed. I dont know if you are supposed to pump the coil up and down when in tracking...the machine may be thinking you are trying to GB and that is why it seems to be out of GB. The nox is sort of a strange horse to ride but it performs well for me. But then again I use it mostly for relic hunting Gold is another story...If dont want the ground noise then I'll pull out the 2300

strick

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7 hours ago, Busho said:

Like I asked in the OP, does yours track in auto track mode.

Yes, mine does well in both the gold and field modes (the primary modes I use relic huning) in heavily mineralized soil, perhaps some of the worst in the US and it has served me well.    If you manually take GB way out of balance and switch into tracking mode, tracking is not going to just snap GB into place, especially if you are just standing still.  First of all Tracking likes Ground Balance to be set near the actual ground phase reading to start and because it responds relatively slowly and it can only trigger on sensed changes in mineralization, it is not going to handle large step changes in mineralization or ground phase well.  Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing mineralization level and changes because the Equinox lacks a mineralization meter and you can't infer mineralization level based on the ground phase reading.  Tracking perhaps can't handle the large swings in ground phase you are describing and is suited to more gradual changes.  If you think tracking is under performing based on the level of ground noise you are experiencing (in other words, you are sure it is doing no better than a single point ground balance and ground phase variations are within reason), a hardware problem is not out of the question and perhaps a call to minelab support is in order.  Anyway, it appears based on your tone, I have somehow struck a nerve with my previous response so I am going to disengage at this point.   Hope you get a satisfactory resolution.

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Mine tracks fine, our big swings in soil go from a ground balance of 1 to 7 though in Gold mode 1 but I've checked and tracking does indeed change the numbers, I don't pump the coil in tracking I just use it as normal but the numbers do indeed automatically change.   I don't bother using tracking here however, I've just used it to test it, I rarely need to balance anyway.

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1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Yes, mine does well in both the gold and field modes (the primary modes I use relic huning) in heavily mineralized soil, perhaps some of the worst in the US and it has served me well.    If you manually take GB way out of balance and switch into tracking mode, tracking is not going to just snap GB into place, especially if you are just standing still.  First of all Tracking likes Ground Balance to be set near the actual ground phase reading to start and because it responds relatively slowly and it can only trigger on sensed changes in mineralization, it is not going to handle large step changes in mineralization or ground phase well.  Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing mineralization level and changes because the Equinox lacks a mineralization meter and you can't infer mineralization level based on the ground phase reading.  Tracking perhaps can't handle the large swings in ground phase you are describing and is suited to more gradual changes.  If you think tracking is under performing based on the level of ground noise you are experiencing (in other words, you are sure it is doing no better than a single point ground balance and ground phase variations are within reason), a hardware problem is not out of the question and perhaps a call to minelab support is in order.  Anyway, it appears based on your tone, I have somehow struck a nerve with my previous response so I am going to disengage at this point.   Hope you get a satisfactory resolution.

No mate, there was no tone at all. I just was seeking an answer which you just gave now, but didnt in your first response. So I clarified my question and repeated it. You have placed a false construct upon my second post based upon your realisation that you had not answered my initial question. It's you who are exhibiting a "tone" as you put it. Have a good day and thanks for your time.

 

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1 hour ago, phrunt said:

Mine tracks fine, our big swings in soil go from a ground balance of 1 to 7 though in Gold mode 1 but I've checked and tracking does indeed change the numbers, I don't pump the coil in tracking I just use it as normal but the numbers do indeed automatically change.   I don't bother using tracking here however, I've just used it to test it, I rarely need to balance anyway.

Ok, thanks for that. Looks like mine has issues. Yours can change from those small variations. I can watch it and walk from pipeclay off onto red clay and swing or pump and nothing budges, may move 1 value. So I hit the track and give it a pump and within a few pumps goes from say 8 to 65. Or it could be from 50 to 4, depending upon what I walked from or too. But on its own tracking wont respond. I have never seen it respond from being in tracking, leaving it showing tracking and swinging it as I detect in a normal detecting fashion. It's off to Minelab then.

Cheers.

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Mine tracks fine. I never pump the coil while tracking. I think (I could be wrong) that the system is simply designed to track the ground as you swing, because pumping seems to mess it up. So don't do that. I put it in tracking and swing. It either improves the situation or not, and if not I go back to manual. There does need to be enough mineral to track, but I doubt that is your issue. :smile:

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