Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
DeltaDigger

Any X35 Coil Users For The Orx Out There?

Recommended Posts

Does anyone use the X35 coil on the ORX? Any opinion on it compared to the HF coils? I got smoked today by a friend. He was using the 11 inch legacy coil (with the Deus) while I was using the 9 inch elliptical coil with the ORX. I realize coil size was a factor but he was getting tones on objects that I couldn't even pick up. We were running the same frequency, reactivity, etc,  just to compare. Any thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DeltaDigger

 I don’t have the X 35 coil but I do have the 9” round coil. I’d say I get good depth with it. I haven’t been out with it as much as I’d like but due to sickness in the family. I do hope that will change soon.

 What you see was my first time out and in a high trash area. I found with another detector it’s no way I could hunt this spot. I was running at 31 KHz due to the trouble I was having with my Whites Pinpointer at 14 KHz .

Chuck

7FA150B6-76A2-40FB-94CD-7361ADF3AC3F.jpeg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thanks for posting the video Steve.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chuck,

what kind of depth are you getting from your 9 inch HF coil on the coins you dug? Were you running it on coin fast or coin deep?

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DeltaDigger

 It wasn’t a true test for depth being most was just covered but some between 5 & 6 inches. The lineup next to the quarters the one that has a stone has a small metal loop and the ORX hit it about 4 inches solid. I was running in coin fast and no headphones. I know from past experience it’s best to always use your headphones but nowadays you just don’t know who will walk up on you.

 The Best  

Chuck

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/6/2019 at 4:25 PM, DeltaDigger said:

Does anyone use the X35 coil on the ORX? Any opinion on it compared to the HF coils? I got smoked today by a friend. He was using the 11 inch legacy coil (with the Deus) while I was using the 9 inch elliptical coil with the ORX. I realize coil size was a factor but he was getting tones on objects that I couldn't even pick up. We were running the same frequency, reactivity, etc,  just to compare. Any thoughts?

My thoughts:

There are a LOT of subtle and not-so-subtle factors in play here that could contribute to the difference in signal performance.

First, you pointed out the obvious - the different coil size.  Remember the 9.5" elliptical is actually a 5 inch wide coil, so depth will be significantly limited compared to the 11".  Basic rule of thumb - 5 inches max depth for the elliptical (the 9" length only really helps with coverage and does not appreciably increase depth vs.say a 5" round coil) and 11" depth for the 11" coil.  BUT that is in neutral ground.  Now I own the 9.5" elliptical coil and I know under ideal conditions it can go deeper than 5" depending on the target, but head-to-head, under the same soil conditions and target type,  the 11" will have a greater depth by at least a few inches.  So this, by far, would have the most significant impact.

Second, because the coils have different frequency ranges and setpoints, you cannot both run at exactly the same frequency.  The legacy coil runs at base frequencies of 4, 8, 12, and 18 khz.  Whereas, he HF elliptical runs at 14, 28, and 80.  I presume you were running at 12 and 14 khz, respectively.  Even though we are talking a small difference, there is a difference nevertheless, and if the target of interest happens to resonate at 12 then the same target may have a much weaker signal at 14 khz, especially at depth.  You still should have very similar frequency-based performance however for most targets at 12 and 14, and the coil size discrepancy would have a much greater effect, but it is a factor to be considered.

Third, there are limitations on some parameters on the ORX that can have a significant effect on how well you hear the target signal including the fact that you cannot adjust the underlying silencer filter setting on the ORX vs. the Deus (on the ORX and the Deus the silencer automatically adjusts with reactivity setting in Coin Fast, but is turned off in Coin Deep, but on the Deus you can also just turn the silence off regardless of reactivity and program setting).  Audio Response is also fixed on the ORX, but adjustable on the Deus, though I DO like the ORX fixed default audio response setting.  Finally, there is a significant difference in the signal processing filters of Coin Fast and Coin Deep.  Coin Fast uses "normal" Version 5 Deus software signal processing filters, which are quieter than the Version 2 Deuss software filters used in Coin Deep.  However, Coin Deep tends to sound off better on deeper targets despite being chattier than Coin Fast.

Finally, not a big fan of the limit of 3 tones on the ORX with fixed breakpoints.  I personally prefer pitch or 5 -tones and like the ability to adjust the breakpoints on the Deus.  It is still usable, but is pretty limiting IMO.

Pro tip.  Even if you are coin shooting or relic hunting.  You might want to give the gold modes a go.  It is a pitch-based tone, so there is no tone ID, only visual ID, but you might be surprised at the sensitivity that VCO audio gives you (volume and pitch increase based on how close the coil is to the target, similar to pinpoint).  Gold mode is really like hunting in all metal, though you can apply some ferrous target audio rejection, it is not the same as the coin modes, but very sensitive.  Give it a shot, especially on those borderline targets that your buddy was hearing clearly.

Without knowing the specific target types, target depths, or site conditions, hard to say exactly what was going on, but I think the coil size discrepancy may have played a large part.

Regarding the X35 coils - I have an 11" and I like it if I am going after depth with either the Deus or ORX.  Great coil, with a great range of operating frequencies.  The addition of the 25 khz over the legacy 11" coil is awesome, and a sweet spot frequency for me when hunting CW relics (buttons, brass, and minie's) which tend to light up at that frequency.  I think picking yourself up a 9" or 11" X35 coil would be a great compliment to your HF elliptical.

However, by far, my favorite general purpose Deus/ORX coil is the 9" HF round.  Good depth, light weight, and just a great all around coil for relic hunting, coin shooting, or dry beach jewelry hunting.

HTH HH

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chase,

the targets were .58 caliber bullets and 1 piece of grape shot. I couldn’t hear the bullets at all and barely heard the grapeshot. The bullets we’re probably 4 inches deep and the grape probably at 8 or 9 inches. My ground is pretty neutral. I changed frequencies numerous times to get as close as possible to what the X35 was running. I also went from coin fast to deep. The difference was eye opening. Thanks for your help and recommendations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi DeltaDigger 

I don't have an X35 coil yet. I only have the high frequency 9X5 elliptical coil. I do have moderate to high mineralized dirt to hunt in.

For coins and jewelry I have been running mine on a custom program based on coin deep: discrimination 0, reactivity 2.5, sensitivity 80 to 90 depending on ground noise, 28 kHz. I have had no problem getting "Dig Me " audio responses on 6"+ deep coins, especially nickels and quarters. .58 caliber lead should be no problem. I have dug several .22 cal.  and .38 cal. slugs and cartridges at 4"+. In either of the coin modes make sure to put discrimination on 0 if you can in order to make sure to get those low conductors even though their depth will definitely effect numerical target ID upwards.  In fact, they may not give a numerical target ID past about 4" except for 99. They will probably high tone also. I think default  discrimination is 7 which could disc out small lead and the small gold I'm after. Either default gold mode should scream on a .58 cal bullet at 4" with the HF 9X5 coil. I always ground balance!!!!!

 

good luck,

jeff

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff's 

On 6/9/2019 at 6:50 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

In either of the coin modes make sure to put discrimination on 0 if you can in order to make sure to get those low conductors even though their depth will definitely effect numerical target ID upwards.  

Can't argue with Jeff's settings and success, but just wanted to offer a counterpoint to this statement. 

I used to be a big "0 disc" guy on the Deus but have changed my tune, especially in thick iron.  The Deus and Orx both offer iron volume.  This allows you to cut in disc yet still hear the disc'd targets while allowing the disc circuit to do its thing and keep the iron from down averaging non-ferrous targets.  In mineralized soil, deeper lower conductors like lead may get pushed into the ferrous region or even wrapped around high.  But the Orx also provides an "Iron probability" display.  That along with iron volume allows you to hear and see targets that fall in the disc range and gives you that extra tone breakpoint so you can decide if you want to dig what is most likely a ferrous target but could also be a minie ball.

Bottom line, I would experiment with both 0 and default disc in the coin modes and see which works out better.  Jeff and I agree that if you need that extra umph for deeper targets in mineralized soil, you can use the gold modes and that is what I go to if I want to run effectively all metal.

Jeff - I welcome your thoughts on this, especially if you think I am overlooking something.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By Steve Herschbach
      OK, let's talk XP ORX. This is an offshoot of the XP DEUS that is set up more specifically for gold prospectors, though it does still retain some basic coin, jewelry, and relic features. Everything nugget hunting has been moved front and center, with other features pushed to the background. The XP Orx features the two new high frequency (HF) coils as one of the two options at time of purchase - either the 9.5" x 5" HF coil or 9" round HF coil. The new X35 coils offer three lower frequency coil options compatible with the Orx. The older black low frequency (LF) coils are not compatible with the Orx.

      XP ORX metal detector for gold prospecting and more
      The Orx like the Deus is a selectable frequency detector. You can choose from one of several frequencies depending on the coil you are using. The frequency is dependent on the coil. The ORX high frequency coils give you a choice of three operating frequencies which cover most detection needs. The optional X35 coils have five frequency options. All primary frequencies have numerous offsets available to help alleviate electrical interference, but these shifts are so small as to make no performance difference. Ignore the statements about 21 frequencies and 35 frequencies as marketing games. The round 9’’ coil runs at 15 kHz, 30 kHz and 50 kHz. The elliptical coil has a higher top end frequency 15 kHz, 30 kHz and 80 kHz. The optional X35 coils run at a lower range of 4 kHz, 8 kHz, 12 kHz, 17 kHz and 25 kHz.

      XP ORX coil options and specifications
      For those familiar with the XP Deus there are some key differences. The rod / shaft assembly has been remade out of injection molded plastic, eliminating the aluminum and rubber grip. This both lowers the cost of the rod assembly as one of the more expensive parts of the Orx to manufacture plus reduces the weight even more. The Deus is the lightest high end detector made and this shaves even more grams. The Orx rod and coil only weighs 770 grams or 1.7 lbs if you put the controller in your pocket.
      Another big difference is in the wireless headphones. All controls have been removed except power and volume. This means that unlike the Deus you must have the controller with you if you want to make any tuning changes at all. Other wireless headphones options are not listed in the accessory list in the ORX User Guide (see image at bottom of this post) and so I can only conclude that the other XP wireless headphone options are not compatible with the Orx.
      I have used the Deus HF elliptical coil and there is no reason to think the performance of this coil is any different using the Orx controller instead of the Deus controller. The coil itself is the detector after all and the coils are the same whether used on a Deus or an Orx. The only difference is in how the functionality is accessed and what features are available.
      The Orx controller as has been noted earlier is set up for gold prospectors first and foremost. Click images for larger versions....

      XP Orx controller and basic functions

      XP Orx basic screen functions displayed
      The Orx does not display target id information until a target is found. Then a pop-up screen appears, showing the target id number and a variable "iron probability" meter.

      XP ORX target id and iron probability meter
      The long story short is I have used the XP Deus with elliptical high frequency coil and I believe performance here will be identical. And as far as I am concerned the Deus HF coils are right up there with the best high frequency gold prospecting options out there. I am not a hair splitter, so from my perspective there are quite a few good detectors in this category. Rather than try and determine what finds gold better than the others I tend to focus more on big picture aspects to determine the machine I prefer over others. Things like weight or how waterproof a detector is can sort things out fast, and personal preference issues like feel on arm and how the audio sounds make a big difference to me.
      This is just my opinion but the appeal of the XP Orx is the very lightweight and very compact design. There is no other option as light on the arm except perhaps the for the Fisher Gold Bug 2 if you hip mount the control box. Then you are attached to the rod assembly by the coil cable. Not a huge deal, but the Orx being wireless gets rid of the possibility of that cable hanging up in brush.
      On the other hand the Orx is priced a little high compared to the other gold prospecting competition. This is not a problem per se as long as you get all the features you need or want. However, if it was I and I wanted to make this detector to compete as a gold prospector I would have made sure the Orx could lay claim to being at least as good at gold prospecting as the Deus and it would be best if the Orx actually could be said to be the better gold prospecting option compared to the Deus at least.
      Yet when you dig in it seems XP limited not just the coin hunting features but also some prospecting features. The big standout is no ground tracking on the Orx. Now I am not a huge fan of ground tracking but when you need it you tend to really need it, and for XP to leave tracking off the Orx when it is included on the Deus seems like a particularly poor choice since this is a detector intended for dealing with extreme ground conditions. Tracking comes at a cost normally, but it can be a huge aid in highly variable ground. I can live without it, but given the cost of the Orx as compared to the competition this feature should be included.
      The other items I am not sure of is ferrous handling. The ferrous tone break appears to be preset and not adjustable on the Orx though you can change the pitch of the ferrous tone. Instead of an adjustable tone break XP appears to be relying more on the iron probability meter for making decisions regarding whether to dig ferrous or not. I may be missing something but I don't think at this time that you get to choose where the dividing line is on what reports audibly as ferrous and what reports audibly as non-ferrous. Consider the jury out here on this question until more information is found. Most people don't care about it anyway, and it may that the Orx reliance on adjusting the IAR (Iron Amplitude Rejection) serves well enough that adjusting the breakpoint is not required.
      I am not really making any determinations here but I am just trying to lay out some details in hope it will help people make their own decisions. I have plenty of detectors that will detect small gold as well as the Deus or Orx so for me personally the thing that keeps me coming back to the XP machines is the crazy compact and lightweight design. Yet in looking over the features and price I personally lean more towards the Deus instead of the Orx. It seems to me XP is being stingy with features given the price and for just a little more money a Deus can eliminate questions about whether those features would be missed or not. If I had to buy right now I would be more inclined to get a Deus with 9" X35 coil. The top end frequency there of 27 kHz should do just fine on small gold and I would get features missing in the Orx. If I really needed extra high frequency hots I could add a high frequency coil as an option later.
      More to the point, XP is saying this is a lower price option to the Deus. Technically that is true of most Deus models, but as of V5 XP has added enough capability to the WS4 module that the $799 Deus Starter Package actually offers the Orx competition at an even lower price. In that regard XP sort of shot themselves in the foot by upgrading the WS4.
      Anyway, that's just a few thoughts from me on the Orx versus the Deus. I won't even attempt to get into the Orx versus all the competition other than to offer this chart below giving a big picture comparison. Given that the Orx is aimed at gold prospectors, and given how there is almost no mention of the detector on the prospecting forums I am very curious to hear people's thoughts on this model. Is XP doing the right thing here for prospectors? Or is it a swing and miss? Opinions?
      XP ORX Information Page
      XP ORX User Guide
      Over 30 khz (LF) gold prospecting metal detectors 1/2019

       
    • By BeachHunter
      The ORX remote control is available to purchase by itself. Would it be compatible with my Deus WS4 and WS5 Headphones HF Coils and shaft? Thanks!
    • By Jeff McClendon
      Since early August, XP have started selling the ORX with the 9" and 11" X35 coils as a stock option for less than $700. The package deal comes with the wired back headphones. Some online dealers that have these in stock are selling this bundle for substantially less than the lowest advertised price or adding in incentives if you ask. Personally, I never enjoyed using the ORX wireless back phones. I have a really big head and those headphones hurt enough to distract me after about 45 minutes no matter what I did. If you are looking at an ORX and the great all purpose frequencies provided on the X35 coils now would be a good time to investigate these deals.
      Jeff
    • By calabash digger
      Running the machine in a high iron relic environment..
       
    • By relicmeister
      Want to know if it will fit inside my camo duffle backpack and don’t want to have to fit the coil on  at the site of use. Could somebody measure this?
      thanks
    • By Ridge Runner
      Gary Blackwell done another great video on the ORX In wet beach sand . The video is posted on the Skill School with all the others.
       Chuck 
       
×
×
  • Create New...