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DeltaDigger

Any X35 Coil Users For The Orx Out There?

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Does anyone use the X35 coil on the ORX? Any opinion on it compared to the HF coils? I got smoked today by a friend. He was using the 11 inch legacy coil (with the Deus) while I was using the 9 inch elliptical coil with the ORX. I realize coil size was a factor but he was getting tones on objects that I couldn't even pick up. We were running the same frequency, reactivity, etc,  just to compare. Any thoughts?

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DeltaDigger

 I don’t have the X 35 coil but I do have the 9” round coil. I’d say I get good depth with it. I haven’t been out with it as much as I’d like but due to sickness in the family. I do hope that will change soon.

 What you see was my first time out and in a high trash area. I found with another detector it’s no way I could hunt this spot. I was running at 31 KHz due to the trouble I was having with my Whites Pinpointer at 14 KHz .

Chuck

7FA150B6-76A2-40FB-94CD-7361ADF3AC3F.jpeg

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Thanks for posting the video Steve.

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Chuck,

what kind of depth are you getting from your 9 inch HF coil on the coins you dug? Were you running it on coin fast or coin deep?

Thanks!

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DeltaDigger

 It wasn’t a true test for depth being most was just covered but some between 5 & 6 inches. The lineup next to the quarters the one that has a stone has a small metal loop and the ORX hit it about 4 inches solid. I was running in coin fast and no headphones. I know from past experience it’s best to always use your headphones but nowadays you just don’t know who will walk up on you.

 The Best  

Chuck

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On 6/6/2019 at 4:25 PM, DeltaDigger said:

Does anyone use the X35 coil on the ORX? Any opinion on it compared to the HF coils? I got smoked today by a friend. He was using the 11 inch legacy coil (with the Deus) while I was using the 9 inch elliptical coil with the ORX. I realize coil size was a factor but he was getting tones on objects that I couldn't even pick up. We were running the same frequency, reactivity, etc,  just to compare. Any thoughts?

My thoughts:

There are a LOT of subtle and not-so-subtle factors in play here that could contribute to the difference in signal performance.

First, you pointed out the obvious - the different coil size.  Remember the 9.5" elliptical is actually a 5 inch wide coil, so depth will be significantly limited compared to the 11".  Basic rule of thumb - 5 inches max depth for the elliptical (the 9" length only really helps with coverage and does not appreciably increase depth vs.say a 5" round coil) and 11" depth for the 11" coil.  BUT that is in neutral ground.  Now I own the 9.5" elliptical coil and I know under ideal conditions it can go deeper than 5" depending on the target, but head-to-head, under the same soil conditions and target type,  the 11" will have a greater depth by at least a few inches.  So this, by far, would have the most significant impact.

Second, because the coils have different frequency ranges and setpoints, you cannot both run at exactly the same frequency.  The legacy coil runs at base frequencies of 4, 8, 12, and 18 khz.  Whereas, he HF elliptical runs at 14, 28, and 80.  I presume you were running at 12 and 14 khz, respectively.  Even though we are talking a small difference, there is a difference nevertheless, and if the target of interest happens to resonate at 12 then the same target may have a much weaker signal at 14 khz, especially at depth.  You still should have very similar frequency-based performance however for most targets at 12 and 14, and the coil size discrepancy would have a much greater effect, but it is a factor to be considered.

Third, there are limitations on some parameters on the ORX that can have a significant effect on how well you hear the target signal including the fact that you cannot adjust the underlying silencer filter setting on the ORX vs. the Deus (on the ORX and the Deus the silencer automatically adjusts with reactivity setting in Coin Fast, but is turned off in Coin Deep, but on the Deus you can also just turn the silence off regardless of reactivity and program setting).  Audio Response is also fixed on the ORX, but adjustable on the Deus, though I DO like the ORX fixed default audio response setting.  Finally, there is a significant difference in the signal processing filters of Coin Fast and Coin Deep.  Coin Fast uses "normal" Version 5 Deus software signal processing filters, which are quieter than the Version 2 Deuss software filters used in Coin Deep.  However, Coin Deep tends to sound off better on deeper targets despite being chattier than Coin Fast.

Finally, not a big fan of the limit of 3 tones on the ORX with fixed breakpoints.  I personally prefer pitch or 5 -tones and like the ability to adjust the breakpoints on the Deus.  It is still usable, but is pretty limiting IMO.

Pro tip.  Even if you are coin shooting or relic hunting.  You might want to give the gold modes a go.  It is a pitch-based tone, so there is no tone ID, only visual ID, but you might be surprised at the sensitivity that VCO audio gives you (volume and pitch increase based on how close the coil is to the target, similar to pinpoint).  Gold mode is really like hunting in all metal, though you can apply some ferrous target audio rejection, it is not the same as the coin modes, but very sensitive.  Give it a shot, especially on those borderline targets that your buddy was hearing clearly.

Without knowing the specific target types, target depths, or site conditions, hard to say exactly what was going on, but I think the coil size discrepancy may have played a large part.

Regarding the X35 coils - I have an 11" and I like it if I am going after depth with either the Deus or ORX.  Great coil, with a great range of operating frequencies.  The addition of the 25 khz over the legacy 11" coil is awesome, and a sweet spot frequency for me when hunting CW relics (buttons, brass, and minie's) which tend to light up at that frequency.  I think picking yourself up a 9" or 11" X35 coil would be a great compliment to your HF elliptical.

However, by far, my favorite general purpose Deus/ORX coil is the 9" HF round.  Good depth, light weight, and just a great all around coil for relic hunting, coin shooting, or dry beach jewelry hunting.

HTH HH

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Chase,

the targets were .58 caliber bullets and 1 piece of grape shot. I couldn’t hear the bullets at all and barely heard the grapeshot. The bullets we’re probably 4 inches deep and the grape probably at 8 or 9 inches. My ground is pretty neutral. I changed frequencies numerous times to get as close as possible to what the X35 was running. I also went from coin fast to deep. The difference was eye opening. Thanks for your help and recommendations. 

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Hi DeltaDigger 

I don't have an X35 coil yet. I only have the high frequency 9X5 elliptical coil. I do have moderate to high mineralized dirt to hunt in.

For coins and jewelry I have been running mine on a custom program based on coin deep: discrimination 0, reactivity 2.5, sensitivity 80 to 90 depending on ground noise, 28 kHz. I have had no problem getting "Dig Me " audio responses on 6"+ deep coins, especially nickels and quarters. .58 caliber lead should be no problem. I have dug several .22 cal.  and .38 cal. slugs and cartridges at 4"+. In either of the coin modes make sure to put discrimination on 0 if you can in order to make sure to get those low conductors even though their depth will definitely effect numerical target ID upwards.  In fact, they may not give a numerical target ID past about 4" except for 99. They will probably high tone also. I think default  discrimination is 7 which could disc out small lead and the small gold I'm after. Either default gold mode should scream on a .58 cal bullet at 4" with the HF 9X5 coil. I always ground balance!!!!!

 

good luck,

jeff

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Jeff's 

On 6/9/2019 at 6:50 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

In either of the coin modes make sure to put discrimination on 0 if you can in order to make sure to get those low conductors even though their depth will definitely effect numerical target ID upwards.  

Can't argue with Jeff's settings and success, but just wanted to offer a counterpoint to this statement. 

I used to be a big "0 disc" guy on the Deus but have changed my tune, especially in thick iron.  The Deus and Orx both offer iron volume.  This allows you to cut in disc yet still hear the disc'd targets while allowing the disc circuit to do its thing and keep the iron from down averaging non-ferrous targets.  In mineralized soil, deeper lower conductors like lead may get pushed into the ferrous region or even wrapped around high.  But the Orx also provides an "Iron probability" display.  That along with iron volume allows you to hear and see targets that fall in the disc range and gives you that extra tone breakpoint so you can decide if you want to dig what is most likely a ferrous target but could also be a minie ball.

Bottom line, I would experiment with both 0 and default disc in the coin modes and see which works out better.  Jeff and I agree that if you need that extra umph for deeper targets in mineralized soil, you can use the gold modes and that is what I go to if I want to run effectively all metal.

Jeff - I welcome your thoughts on this, especially if you think I am overlooking something.

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