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Noise / Falsing While Hunting In Saltwater


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On 6/24/2019 at 7:34 AM, midalake said:

 

I am guessing both of you have read my saltwater report card a few topics below?  It is not just a "falsing" problem, but a significant lack of detection problem as well working in moving salt water. I had 100's of targets disappear when moving water was present, not to be heard again until the beach drained out.

During the times when water is moving on the beach slope it just seems the Nox is seriously crippled by this water wash. 

I am going to work harder in July to crack this problem. I highly suggest not progressing your movement on the beach until the water has drained off.   

If anyone thinks there is an answer, I am all ears!

Dave 

 

Does it also disappear if you pinpoint? or just when running normally? I've had them disappear while trying to recover the target,  but have always heard them in pinpoint mode.

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1 hour ago, schoolofhardNox said:

Does it also disappear if you pinpoint? or just when running normally? I've had them disappear while trying to recover the target,  but have always heard them in pinpoint mode.

Pinpoint mode to me is completely worthless. It has a broader spectrum signal than Disc mode and the water  seems to drive even more noise/chatter in pinpoint.  I have learned to "X" the target  in Disc mode and recover.  The more important part of the conversation is the loss of detection. How do I go forward with moving water and expect to detect targets?  The answer is: I am unable to.  

Dave

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Dave...... have you tried swapping program?  Im using the old program and really cant say i notice targets are disappearing in the surf..... at least not here.  There of course is a build up of the gray sand that can drive a lot of detectors a little nuts.   IF i find it an issue ill turn and run West to East in a zig zag style...... kind of running with the grain.  

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15 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

 

Dave...... have you tried swapping program?  Im using the old program and really cant say i notice targets are disappearing in the surf..... at least not here.  There of course is a build up of the gray sand that can drive a lot of detectors a little nuts.   IF i find it an issue ill turn and run West to East in a zig zag style...... kind of running with the grain.  

Hey Dew

I owned the machine before the up-date. Then the first time I installed the up-date the machine was bonkers, went back to orig. platform for a few more trips out to make sure the machine was operating properly, then re-installed the updates again with a positive note. 

For me, the update seems much better across the board on multiple levels. So I have not looked back.

Also just to qualify NOT ALL targets go undetectable. The large and/or high targets are still able to punch through. Example:  I routinely pull 10 peso coins [bigger than a .50 cent piece] at 12-13 inch depths in the wet sand. This will NEVER happen in and around moving salt water. Maybe you will detect this 10 peso coin to 4-5 inches.  The sad part is a detector from K-mart can do that

If you keep detecting in moving water you do not know what you are missing until you wait for the beach to drain-off. Took me a while to put 2&2 together, but it finally clicked when I would only progress my movement after the beach cleared of water. Then the amount of targets that became detectable increased greatly. Also the frequency of how many times I had to wait to recover the target increased because I could not hear it until the water withdrew.  

I have been working this beach for over 15 years, so I know its language and know where the targets are. That was also helpful in figuring out this issue of detection depth and lack of performance in moving water. 

 Dave

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Ive not really had that issue..... but it could be similar to how targets disappear in the hole.   The digits for me on the new program was a little screwy...... but location really seems to make the difference with the Nox and how you run it or how it works.   One suit may not fit everyone.

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Dave's Salt Water Report Card was an accurate and well written account.  I bookmarked this as kind of a "problem set" for future projects in the NOX.  Never liked the "bitty" quality that the audio takes on in fast or deep salt or where there are inclines.  The overprocessed signal removes you from the feedback that needs to be responded to by way of coil speed and tuning.  I guess this is why there is the low TX shift--so new hunters would not be at a total loss.  There's also the problem of ground noises jumping up.  Best thing I've found is to run B2 in 2 Tone with a massive   manual undertune (-9!).  This gives more of a solid barrier--and cleaner assignment of targets. It can also be run in All Metal this way to make good responses stand out.  You also have TB to clean up the signal if needed. Not my first choice as a deep salt water machine but it works and is accurate.  

cjc

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On 6/24/2019 at 7:34 AM, midalake said:

 

I am guessing both of you have read my saltwater report card a few topics below?  It is not just a "falsing" problem, but a significant lack of detection problem as well working in moving salt water. I had 100's of targets disappear when moving water was present, not to be heard again until the beach drained out.

During the times when water is moving on the beach slope it just seems the Nox is seriously crippled by this water wash. 

I am going to work harder in July to crack this problem. I highly suggest not progressing your movement on the beach until the water has drained off.   

If anyone thinks there is an answer, I am all ears!

Dave 

 

 

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13 hours ago, cjc said:

... I guess this is why there is the low TX shift--so new hunters would not be at a total loss.  There's also the problem of ground noises jumping up.  Best thing I've found is to run B2 in 2 Tone with a massive   manual undertune (-9!).  This gives more of a solid barrier--and cleaner assignment of targets. It can also be run in All Metal this way to make good responses stand out.  You also have TB to clean up the signal if needed. Not my first choice as a deep salt water machine but it works and is accurate.  

cjc

Please forgive my ignorance,  What is TX shift and TB?  I figured B2 (Beach mode 2).  I'm half lost without the abbreviations! 

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10 hours ago, Sting Ray said:

Please forgive my ignorance,  What is TX shift and TB?  I figured B2 (Beach mode 2).  I'm half lost without the abbreviations! 

100% agree.  Clive you are putting out some great nuggets and valuable insights here especially on these salt water and coil control issues, but I often get bogged down when folks use abbreviations for metal detecting terminology specific to certain machines.  There are a lot of newbies and veterans to Equinox here lurking.  Don't assume your audience is a bunch of nox beachunting insiders totally familiar and comfortable with the arcane Equinox and beach hunting terminology, much less their abbreviations.  Take the time to spell it out for us so we can all benefit.  Many thanks.

By the way to Sting Ray - Clive can confirm, but "TX shift" I believe is referring to the reduced transmit coil power used in Beach 2, for better stability in high salt conditions and transmit power autoreduction in beach mode in general if black sand mineraluzation is detected (p. 25 and 26 of the Equinox user guide).  "TB" refers to the ability to shift the ferrous/non-ferrous "tone break" in this case slightly higher than the 1 or 2 default to give better non-ferrous tone stability as the nox tends to want to bounce around zero on many weak targets.  You might sacrifice the occasional gold chain this way in order to gain more tone stability overall.  And I believe manual undertune is referring to manually setting GB to minus numbers in salt surf.  Again, Clive can chime in to straighten me out but this should help clear some stuff up in the mean time.

23 hours ago, cjc said:

The overprocessed signal removes you from the feedback that needs to be responded to by way of coil speed and tuning.

Agree, that is why I wish Minelab would incorporate a pitch tone option and true threshold similar to what is implemented in gold mode as an option for all search profile modes since gold and other "hot" modes are unusable in salt. Or even a more sophisticated ferrous tone grunt + non-ferrous pitch tone, similar to what can be configured for the XP Deus.

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