Who Makes The X-coils? Who Sells Them?

[jasong]

The chip doesnt prevent counterfeiting in any way I can determine. Chinese can still replicate the GPZ circuit board, they can still replicate the DOD design, and they can still replicate the physical design of the case. The chip prevents none of that. It's not like Chinese counterfeiters sell machines with genuine Minelab coils and thus are thwarted because they can't now with the GPZ. Presumably, further, a counterfeit machine wouldnt have the chip authentication so any coil could run on them.

What the chip very effectively prevents is an aftermarket coil from being used without a licensing fee and company approval on a AUTHENTIC machine. Occams razor... it answers basically all the mysteries we've wondered about here.

Unless someone can explain something I've missed regarding the chip doing anything to prevent Chinese counterfeiting. There are already counterfeit GPZs on the market so that would indicate it hasn't.

[Norvic]

If there was IP theft going on, ML would`ve closed X coil down long ago, X coils have been around long enough. Nah this is simply a desperate attempt to stop customers, just go back and read all the varying negatives that have been placed on X coil by MLs only voice, the attempts at discrediting experienced operators right through to "ethical' considerations. Down the track gold will settle this matter conclusively.

[jasong]

If one guy from Russia can make coils then I'm pretty sure the massive Chinese market could find a way to produce a coil too if that was the only stumbling block. 

Plenty of other 3rd party companies have also produced coils for the PI machines along with a ton of hobbyists. There is no way the Chinese couldnt do it too if they wanted, they probably just dont care since the counterfeit machines are generally garbage anyways so what's the point. But properly working coils arent magic voodoo that only Minelab can do properly, they are well within the realm of replication, even for hobbyists. Open up an 11" minelab commander and take a look at the very loose engineering inside them and you will see what I mean.

 

[Norvic]

21 minutes ago, jasong said:

Open up an 11" minelab commander and take a look at the very loose engineering inside them and you will see what I mean.

Or test a Coiltek Extreme Coil on a SDC, my memory tells me we were fed stories of coil matching even right up to when Coiltek notified us of their SDC coils or test a X coil on a GPZ. MLs the worlds dominant gold detector Manufacturer, they also dominate in their PR, they dominate in their dealer network although that must be getting a wee shaky amongst ML loyal dealers with the selling of a lot of their recreation detectors through OZ Chainstores.

In the US can you purchase ML detectors through Chainstores?

[Norvic]

 

2 minutes ago, Norvic said:

In the US can you purchase ML detectors through Chainstores?

Crikey, I should have checked Amazon before asking...…...

[jasong]

20 hours ago, phrunt said:

The Chinese can't just copy the GPZ software on their clones like they did with other detectors like the Teknetics T2 as the software on the fakes will then be checking for the chip which they can't easily replicate.  The chip in the coil is the stumbling block to making exact working clones. 

Right, and the chip still doesnt prevent counterfeiting in that case either because the software they will have to write will not have ML chip authentication in it and so any coil will work in a clone in theory. So again, the chip does not prevent counterfeiting in that case either. Guarantee the firmware is encrypted, so even if they wanted to copy it they couldnt. 

No Chinese manufacturer has ever made an exact clone of any Minelab machine, not even the ones without chip security. They dont even try near as I can tell. They just make something that looks like and kinda works like a Minelab product. And that is where Minelab is losing money. They sell clones in gold rush areas to clients who dont know how to tell the difference between a ML product and a clone in terms of functionality without any concern about how well the actually work. There is no need to make an exact copy and as I mentioned that is already being demonstrated by the existence of GPZ clones on the market already.

The chip only prevents people from using a 3rd party coil on an authentic Minelab machine. There is no counterfeiting there unless Minelab wants to say any 3rd party use of the DOD design is counterfeiting or IP theft, and that subject was just covered here.

[madtuna]

4 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

I’m not asking or telling anyone how they should behave, I can only say how I feel and behave on the subject. The only reason I keep mentioning it is because of all the, what I consider, poor justifications and excuses being mentioned here on the forum. Conscience votes are just that, life is about continual choices being made around what you are personally comfortable with according to you own personal code, I’ve stated mine.

The fact that so far Minelab have done nothing about it suggests they are not too worried, but you can never tell with big corporates, which is why I put so much effort into trying to legitimately access the adapter. Yes the coils aren’t perfect but in a lot of areas they are OK and they DO offer more choice in the form of bigger and smaller sizes and less weight.

JP

Fair enough, unfortunately though sometimes it comes across that anyone who uses an X coil is unethical, doesn't know how to use thier detector properly or is purposely hiding or not disclosing  flaws.

Maybe coils should be included with religion and politics in the list of things not to be discussed on forums.

[Northeast]

3 minutes ago, madtuna said:

Maybe coils should be included with religion and politics in the list of things not to be discussed on forums.

??  Funny, but a little bit true!  

[Andyy]

I guess I have just never seen one person on this forum, so against a product coming out.  There seems to be a hidden agenda or the product would be allowed to just fail on its own.  Facts given for buyer beware, is helpful.  But everything afterwards is just useless.

As for IP, time will need to tell on that one.  It is *very* easy to work around existing IP.  You add one novel idea to an existing patent, and you are around it.  So attacking the integrity of people who have bought this coil is just a low blow in my opinion.

 

[jasong]

I'm thinking my coils should be getting to customs in the US now, the tracking stopped in Moscow and got picked up by USPS but they haven't updated yet. Tomorrow is our independence day, which is a massive holiday here in the US and everything shuts down, so there will be a bit of a delay there and then the weekend. Might be as much as another 5 days before I get them, then gotta finish this construction project I'm on since the goldfields are 1000 miles away and can't take that much time off. So...lots more time left to talk I guess.