GPZ 10" Xcoils In USA

[Andyy]

Maybe when it cools down.  At 112F, not many people are getting out.  Very few go out at night like me.

[afreakofnature]

Ah wasn’t thinking temps Andyy.  Its been in the 90s here still too hot but better than snow for me.

Yeah on a cool day and if your buddy would too.  Even though its an 8” to 10” and different tech I’m still curious.  If I was closer I’d help out with mine.

[Andyy]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Porter said:

Absolutely you can detect in MANUAL, I often do and it does provide the maximum depth achievable assuming both X and G are calibrated properly to the former and localised ground balance conditions for the latter. 

To be honest, I have never used manual, other than to click over with the user button so that it stops tracking ground balance.  If you left the unit in manual then I understand you have to press the button, in which case you are quick tracking every time you press the button, correct?  Maybe your point in operating in manual is that you do not ever press the button.  You just switch back to Semi Auto if you think ground balance is needed.

If your X and G are calibrated properly, you believe that more depth is achievable?  This is confusing to me as I would think the machine reading and balancing to the current changing conditions would give the best depth all of the time.

[jasong]

22 minutes ago, Andyy said:

If your X and G are calibrated properly, you believe that more depth is achievable?  This is confusing to me as I would think the machine reading and balancing to the current changing conditions would give the best depth all of the time.

This is what I was getting at too when I asked JP about Manual last page.

Since Manual stays balanced to the ferrite, and the ferrite balance is supposed to be the best, I can't understand what the purpose of manual is at all since Semi Auto also stays balanced to the ferrite and also tracks to the ground as the coil moves which should be the best possible ground balance. I didn't see the purpose for either Auto or Manual anymore, that being the case.

The only thing that makes sense to me is when you want to be unbalanced to the ground for some reason. This used to be a technique with VLFs to filter some hotrocks out or make them sound more obvious. The GPZ to me feels like a mega VLF acting like a PI so there might be some use for a technique such as that in hot ground - I'm not in hot ground enough to have really tried anything like that though.

The only other reason I could think of is in soil that doesn't change hardly at all - at which point maybe Manual completely bypasses some GB filtering circuitry and in fact does get slightly better depth?

[flakmagnet]

15 hours ago, davsgold said:

The times I use manual ground balance is, if I have a very faint target and don't want to track it out,

Yeah Dave, that basically is the only time I use it…and I have it set in the User Button as well. It works.

 

[Andyy]

3 hours ago, jasong said:

This is what I was getting at too when I asked JP about Manual last page.

Since Manual stays balanced to the ferrite, and the ferrite balance is supposed to be the best, I can't understand what the purpose of manual is at all since Semi Auto also stays balanced to the ferrite and also tracks to the ground as the coil moves which should be the best possible ground balance. I didn't see the purpose for either Auto or Manual anymore, that being the case.

The only other reason I could think of is in soil that doesn't change hardly at all - at which point maybe Manual completely bypasses some GB filtering circuitry and in fact does get slightly better depth?

Yes.  And you cannot press the QT button.  Basically, when manual is put as the user button, and you select it, it just freezes everything.  I don't think it could possibly get better depth unless we are missing some circuitry question, like you said. 

2 hours ago, davsgold said:

The only different method I use for the ferrite balance between the GPZ coils and the X-Coils is, for the X-Coils I push the coil back and forwards along the TX and RX crossover while holding in the quick track button and using semi auto GB.  Release the quick track button when balance is satisfactory, and don't use the quick track button again, just pump the coil up and down slowly about 200mm (8") to get the "G" balance, you can pump the coil up and down when necessary to keep the "G" balance  without ever using the quick track button.

Thanks, Dave.  I meant to try your method this weekend but the Saturation signal was not bad in this 3rd area.  I did use this method but for this soil, any method would have balanced the ferrite. 

----------------------

But getting back to the original point of my post, I do not think going to manual can get you better depth on future targets.  Just my opinion.  When digging targets, I go from Semi-Auto to manual, just like everyone else.  But if there is an additional advantage to using manual, I would like to know.

[Jonathan Porter]

On 7/14/2019 at 5:21 PM, davsgold said:

The times I use manual ground balance is, if I have a very faint target and don't want to track it out, I will switch to manual GB using the "user button" and when I have finished, go to the " user button" again and change back to semi auto GB, and during all this the ferrite remains "locked" or set as it was when you did the ferrite balance thing using the quick track button, all this procedure is is the same for the GPZ coils or the X-Coils.

The only different method I use for the ferrite balance between the GPZ coils and the X-Coils is, for the X-Coils I push the coil back and forwards along the TX and RX crossover while holding in the quick track button and using semi auto GB.  Release the quick track button when balance is satisfactory, and don't use the quick track button again, just pump the coil up and down slowly about 200mm (8") to get the "G" balance, you can pump the coil up and down when necessary to keep the "G" balance  without ever using the quick track button.

This is the  way I do it and it is the same basic method whether I am using the GPZ coils or the X-Coils. 

cheers dave

I’ll try not to make this personal and I’ll also try to keep on subject but its hard not to when I read these sorts of comments that are clearly written because it seems like the smoke’s cleared. I especially note the bricked GPZ issue was never addressed!!

Firstly on both occasions I’ve met with you you have not been using your GPZ anything like what you have just written, I should be pleased because clearly you have taken my advice and also been reading the many posts I’ve made on the subject and taken it on board. Secondly the method described for your X balance is extremely flawed in an attempt to avoid the very serious and OBVIOUS issue of the X coil not balancing on the Ferrite.

Your not using a DIFFERENT method, you are using a flawed method to avoid a SERIOUS problem. Not waving the Ferrite over the noisy spot is NOT going to make the problem go away......absolutely astounding you would think it’s OK to describe such a method and not actually acknowledge the issue and in public too!

 ???

A serious question for readers of this forum, why would it be recommended to push the coil over the Ferrite too and fro along the receive point? Answer, to avoid the Ferrite from coming anywhere near the faulty solder joint inside the coil. Why is this? Because you cannot balance out the Ferrite on that point, this is because the Ferrite makes a HUGE signal that NEVER reduces no matter how hard you try!

What happens if the coil goes over anything similar to the Ferrite in the ground? A VERY LOUD signal will result on anything that has any sort of X signal and a variable interference like signal will result from the many tiny X like pebbles in the soils, instability will be very evident on smaller Ferrite like particles.

Call it like it is and let the users decide, don’t cloak the advice in plagiarised information, especially when I fully informed of the issue before the coils went on sale, clearly said advice was taken on board in other areas of GPZ use!!

Back on track to keep this post fully on piste, MANUAL mode will provide a LOUDER signal response compared to tracking because tracking will remove a small amount of target signal, that is the nature of an auto GB. The GPZ operates smoother in a Tracking G mode because of the DOD design and the way it reacts on an interchange in variable ground types, Tracking G smooths these interchanges out but the user has to be aware it is not infallible, you need to DRIVE it not IT you. 

In the case of the X coils that make a big signal on the ferrite the only real option is to use Auto Tracking and hope X is not too prevalent in your area. The spot on the coil that reacts to the X signal is always going to be an issue which means in some ground you will need to revert back to your “Butchered GPZ coil” and leave the ranks of the X men!!

JP

[jasong]

JP, is the "mod" which you suggested in prior posts and which may or may not occur in newer X Coils a ferrite inside the coil over the solder point? I had ventured a guess this might be it some time back after the coil X Ray thread. Or is it some spacer to raise the TX a bit further over the RX?

Or is it confidential?

The ferrite thing seems pretty easy to include if the solution were that simple. Or if the coils are easy to disassemble then maybe a user could do it themselves, no idea.

[Jonathan Porter]

11 hours ago, jasong said:

JP, is the "mod" which you suggested in prior posts and which may or may not occur in newer X Coils a ferrite inside the coil over the solder point? I had ventured a guess this might be it some time back after the coil X Ray thread. Or is it some spacer to raise the TX a bit further over the RX?

Or is it confidential?

The ferrite thing seems pretty easy to include if the solution were that simple. Or if the coils are easy to disassemble then maybe a user could do it themselves, no idea.

I’m not at liberty to fully discuss because of confidentiality but Dave has always been fully aware of the Ferrite signal issue (because it was the first thing I noticed about the coils with him present) and has deliberately chosen to not be upfront with his customers.

JP

 

[Jin]

Could someone please explain what the faulty solder joint means. This picture of the gpz 14 coil shows wires coming out of the receive windings is this the area that's not excepting the ferrite balance correctly on the x-coil? Or is it the tx wire at the top of the coil where it looks like it may be joined/soldered? Photo credit: detectorprospector.com