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GPZ 10" Xcoils In USA


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1 hour ago, Andyy said:

I think that if you open the case, you void the warranty.

You do but a lot a machines are out of warranty now. Im looking for a solution that doesn't risk bricking the machine should a patch cable short out now or in 5 years time. Placing it inside the machine behind the plug is a better option in my books. Of course i wouldn't do the job id get someone capable. The only issue i see is Minelab may not want to fix the machine if they see a mod done inside.

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Jin - I guess I could see something like that working.   But let's say someone could make a chip.  You would still have to drill a hole in the housing of the ZED to have an alternate connector exit.  Then you would have to create a bypass switch or board to switch between the coils.  Possible for a good electrical engineer.  Heck, look at what is done to the GPX modified units.  They modify the housing.  I guess the housing mod just seemed more hardcore to me.  At least if I messed up my coil with this mod, I could buy another for much cheaper than my machine.  But I still like the line of thinking.

I was originally considering  that you could just get the mating pins that connect to the GPZ for the ML connector (on the coil end) and insert the hot glue around them (when connected to the ZED unit)  to make a poor man's connector.  I have done this with Garmin GPS units and it works great.  But Jason clued me in that for these connectors it probably would not work.   After further investigation, I could see that there would not be a lot of material for the mold to hold structure/shape.  So, I still don't see another workaround other than what the Russians are using.  My .02.

But it is fun to try to find other solutions to the puzzle.

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28 minutes ago, Andyy said:

You would still have to drill a hole in the housing of the ZED to have an alternate connector exit. 

No i was thinking you would just remove the gpz connector (bin it) and replace with a gpx connector on the housing. The chip mod could sit inside the housing behind the gpx connector. You all ready need to sacrifice a coil for the chip, so just put a gpx plug on the end the sacrificed coil to continue using that one and the X -coils. Anyway to late for me to worry now as im posting off my gpz14 coil in the morning and getting Pat from "Steelphase" to make a patch lead. 

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Wes, I think I know someone in NV with an SDC I can compare to when I get there. I don't have an SDC though so I can't do it here in Wyoming.

Probably be a month before I can take off from work, so someone else might have their coils by then who is closer to the goldfields, I know at least couple people have them on order here. If they don't compare it first then I will.

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4 hours ago, jasong said:

Recall for a moment: the Z14 has a pronounced dual "bladed" response. A signal will be most pronounced over the two points on the DOD where the RX and TX overlap.

However, what I'm noticing on these smaller X coils (17" still needs tested) is that the target response is more "mono-like" and less blade-like. It's wider underneath the coil and thus it seems easier to hear very small targets as they sound off on a larger portion of the coil seemingly (almost the entire coil body seems "hot") and not just the blades.

So, the small size is already helping in tight spaces, but for working rocky washes and what not where the coil often cannot get a full swing and you are poking and prodding, this may also help bring out some nuggets that didn't fall well enough under a blade, since it seems just getting any part of the coil over a target will ping it.

Further, the response curve seems much sharper with the X Coils, a factor which also seems to me to brighten up targets and make them more immediately discernable. It's almost like it goes from zero to screamer exponentially, whereas the scale is more linear and gradual on the Z14. Targets in general just sound a bit more defined and jump out sooner.

 

That is interesting, Jason.  I agree with you on the sharper response and to be quicker to go from 0 to screamer.  But my 10" was nothing like a mono, at least on the smaller nuggets.  I specifically, remember testing this on the 0.1 grammers and trying to find out where the gold was between the blade signals.  Maybe that mono sound was more for the grammer plus sizes??

I know there are a ton of people interested in the SDC to 10" coil comparisons.  I need to get my hands on someone with an SDC to test this.  Maybe in the next couple weeks or so, I can do some convincing with a friend of mine.  I believe testing should be done with sizes .25g and lower.  This is the world of the SDC. (not that it can't go bigger..I know it can)

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Andy, I didnt mean they are literally acting as a mono. They are still DOD coils and the blade pattern is still present. I meant compared to the z14 the detection field seems to cover more of the coil, it feels broader to me. Maybe I phrased it badly initially.

What I mean is the blades seem more obvious, shallower, on the z14 comparatively speaking for the same target at the same depths. The target fade in and out during a swing seemed fainter. In fact at some depths the z14 had a definite blade response while the 10 or 12 was hitting all over the coil still with a diggable signal. But yes, I could still hear the blades. I'm trying to listen for subtleties to understand how to use them better when I get into the field.

*edit: half grammer and 2 grammer are what I randomly grabbed. I'll try to draw what I heard when I get off work to make it more clear.

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5 hours ago, jasong said:

Gave the 10" a quick run out at lunch today. Not for gold, just a qualitative feel for how they work. The first time, as I mentioned to a couple friends in private a few days ago but didn't want to say in public until I could verify a 2nd time, my sense was that the coils provided a much "sharper", yet somehow also broader response than the Z14. I was able to verify that today, and it makes me wonder if this is part of the reason these coils are pulling up new targets.

Recall for a moment: the Z14 has a pronounced dual "bladed" response. A signal will be most pronounced over the two points on the DOD where the RX and TX overlap.

However, what I'm noticing on these smaller X coils (17" still needs tested) is that the target response is more "mono-like" and less blade-like. It's wider underneath the coil and thus it seems easier to hear very small targets as they sound off on a larger portion of the coil seemingly (almost the entire coil body seems "hot") and not just the blades.

So, the small size is already helping in tight spaces, but for working rocky washes and what not where the coil often cannot get a full swing and you are poking and prodding, this may also help bring out some nuggets that didn't fall well enough under a blade, since it seems just getting any part of the coil over a target will ping it.

Further, the response curve seems much sharper with the X Coils, a factor which also seems to me to brighten up targets and make them more immediately discernable. It's almost like it goes from zero to screamer exponentially, whereas the scale is more linear and gradual on the Z14. Targets in general just sound a bit more defined and jump out sooner.

And there does also seem to be some raw depth improvements on certain nuggets too. Will do some rebury tests compared to the Z14 later this week when my ferrite arrives, and get some raw numbers. I know people don't like those tests, but IMO detectors are not magic voodoo sticks that evade the scientific method, and it's a way to measure different equipment in the same conditions to get baseline measurements in ground similar to that which I detect in normally (very mild). And I'm 1000 miles away from gold so it's the best I can do right now.

I have the 10” and 17” X-Coils on order.  My decision to purchase them is based on my thoughts/opinions of possible improved performances are as follows;

The lowering the X-Coil transmit coil approximately 2cm/0.75” creates an exponentially greater target signal return to the receiver coils. 

DOD receiver coils are wired in series (voltage adding) so that with a large target the returned signals are combined effectively into one centered search lobe similar to a Mono coil.

A very small shallow/weak target normally does not return enough signal strength to both receive coils to be formed into a Mono like search lobe. Thus they are predominantly detected in the more sensitive areas near the windings. 

The lowering of the X-Coil transmit coil approximately 2cm/0.75” creates exponentially greater signal strength from a small target.  This can produce enough signal from some small targets into both receive coils to provide a Mono coil like search lobe. This will be most evident with smaller coils that concentrate the transmit energy into a smaller area.

The exponential transmit and receive gain/sensitivity and resultant depth gain of the X-coil is similar to scraping away the surface debris to get closer to the target. At the same time receiving exponentially a louder and sharper response.

The larger X-coils that have the transmit coil wound in some form of a spiral that should have some improved performance as seen in other spiral wound commercial coils.

Some performance gain may have been made by changing the number of turns in the transmit coil and/or receive coil. They could be altered within reasonable design limits of the electronics.

Some of the pros and cons of these coils have already been discussed. More experiences and reports from the field will be interesting.

Have a good day,
Chet

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