My Personal Method Of Ferrite Balancing

[flakmagnet]

I can't pretend to understand x-ground signals and temperature changes and such, but I can conclusively say from direct experience that Semi-Auto is the way to go in the places where I detect. The change after the update was subtly profound. Recently I have changed the User button to be able to switch to Manual when messing with a target signal. Sometimes I use it and sometimes, when the signal is apparent, I don't.

But...

I love this discussion.

[MSC]

Thanks JP, I continue to learn, very much appreciated.

[Northeast]

11 hours ago, Rob Allison said:

I must tell you, the customers that were on fence about buying a GPZ 7000 just jumped back.  Reading this for a new customer, or someone thinking about purchasing is way too confusing. 

Howdy Rob.  A message for your 'on the fence' customers from a previous 7000 owner, only semi-experienced detectorist, very minimally experienced prospector and a person with zero affiliation with anyone person or company.  

1) the GPZ 7000 is a very easy detector to set-up and use and is also a very powerful detector.   I was a complete novice when I bought mine and found gold with it quickly.  If you allow it to be, it is very straight forward. 

2) all of this can be as simple or as complex as the end user wishes to make it.  Some people want to know the how, why, when and where of how something works - that's the complex bit . If you just want to know how to work the 7000 then that's easy. 

3) Turn it on.

 - noise cancel.

 - balance with ferrite and Quick Trak in semi auto.

 - release Quick Track and pump ground balance just off to the side. 

 - check ferrite again.  If still making noise over ferrite, balance with ferrite and Quick Trak in semi auto again.  Repeat the above steps until quiete over ferrite and ground.    

 - start detecting.  

 - check over the ferrite sporadically through the day or if the detector seems 'out of tune'.  

4) With minimal practice this sequence will flow easy. 

5) The Ground Mode to choose and the Gold Mode to choose are explained very well in the manual.

6) The default settings are a great place to start and when you get some hours on the machine start to test and play - especially with un-dug targets. 

7) The GPZ 7000 is heavy and expensive but also awesome.  Comes down to an individual's needs and abilities.

8) The GPZ 7000 won't find gold that isn't there.  The best detector in the world doesn't replace research and time on the ground.   

9) JP - I've tried to summarise your balancing process in point 3.  If it is out of kilter please copy and paste it and fix it up  ?

10) If I had the money to buy one and the time to use it I would have a 7000 again in a heart beat.  So if you have the time, the money, the location and the physical ability - get off the fence  ?

 

[flakmagnet]

I agree Northeast. The 7000 is complex in it's make-up but surprisingly simple to use. I was laughing the other day with an acquaintance who was saying that you could screw up almost every setting and find gold with it. Don't be intimidated by the highly technical talk; for the end user there are a few simple steps and if you go over gold you will find it. Obviously you need correct technique - and, yes, a lot depends on that - but it can be learned.

I am sure there are others that post here who will agree with Northeast as well.

[Jonathan Porter]

5 hours ago, Northeast said:

Howdy Rob.  A message for your 'on the fence' customers from a previous 7000 owner, only semi-experienced detectorist, very minimally experienced prospector and a person with zero affiliation with anyone person or company.  

1) the GPZ 7000 is a very easy detector to set-up and use and is also a very powerful detector.   I was a complete novice when I bought mine and found gold with it quickly.  If you allow it to be, it is very straight forward. 

2) all of this can be as simple or as complex as the end user wishes to make it.  Some people want to know the how, why, when and where of how something works - that's the complex bit . If you just want to know how to work the 7000 then that's easy. 

3) Turn it on.

 - noise cancel.

 - balance with ferrite and Quick Trak in semi auto.

 - release Quick Track and pump ground balance just off to the side. 

 - check ferrite again.  If still making noise over ferrite, balance with ferrite and Quick Trak in semi auto again.  Repeat the above steps until quiete over ferrite and ground.    

 - start detecting.  

 - check over the ferrite sporadically through the day or if the detector seems 'out of tune'.  

4) With minimal practice this sequence will flow easy. 

5) The Ground Mode to choose and the Gold Mode to choose are explained very well in the manual.

6) The default settings are a great place to start and when you get some hours on the machine start to test and play - especially with un-dug targets. 

7) The GPZ 7000 is heavy and expensive but also awesome.  Comes down to an individual's needs and abilities.

8) The GPZ 7000 won't find gold that isn't there.  The best detector in the world doesn't replace research and time on the ground.   

9) JP - I've tried to summarise your balancing process in point 3.  If it is out of kilter please copy and paste it and fix it up  ?

10) If I had the money to buy one and the time to use it I would have a 7000 again in a heart beat.  So if you have the time, the money, the location and the physical ability - get off the fence  ?

 

Thankyou Northeast, what Ive been saying can seem confusing because I am being asked VERY detailed questions and then trying to give VERY detailed replies. Like I said previously it should take 20 seconds from the machine switching on till your moving off to find your fortune.

In our shop we call it the E F G approach, alphabetical so it is easy to remember the order.

• E for EMI
• F for Ferrite Balance
• G for Ground Balance

Hope this helps

JP

[Jonathan Porter]

16 hours ago, Andyy said:

And …. Saturation only affects X balance, not ground balance. 

And …. Semi Auto locks the X balance when you release the button (I proved this well in my testing) but allows the ground balance to track slowly. 

As an added note, my 14" coil was smoother in Semi Auto, than when I used to always have it set to Auto.  As JP has mentioned in the past, if you don't want to use the Ferrite, then he suggests Auto, but if you use the ferrite, we should lock it in with SemiAuto.

we will figure this out, yet...

As I questioned on a different link, what exactly saturation is …. still has me confused. 

In layman’s terms Saturation is where the concentrated highly magnetic mineralised pebbles and soils on the surface of the ground throw a field back at the Tx winding causing a small current to pass across the Tx which then manifests as a signal in your ears. You cannot ground balance out Saturation signal, it will always be there no matter what, unless you lower the Sensitivity, change Ground Type mode (EG go from Normal to Difficult) or use a less aggressive Gold mode (EG go from High Yield to General) or worst of all FILTER it OUT by introducing Audio Smoothing.

All PI detectors I have ever used Saturate, this is especially so with the new Flat wound coils on GPX machines. All Saturation signals compete with target signals so the operator needs to perfect their swing height manageament to keep the coil right on the cusp between Saturation noise intrusion into the threshold and maximum depth relative to a buried target. Once Saturation noise intrudes the level of noise that is generated adds to the general threshold noise of the detector effectively reducing sensitivity to a buried target (masking in other words).

Because the GPZ 7000 runs so quiet (assuming you are using sensible settings) Saturation noise can interfere or reduce sensitivity, a precious commodity gained through the GPZ’s ability to run Zero Stabilizer (Audio Smoothing OFF). If you introduce Audio Smoothing you mask or hide the effects of Saturation and EMI, both of which KILL depth. I think a lot of X coil users are running their detectors this way and are masking or hiding the differences.

All X coils that I have used SATURATE much more readily than Minelab coils, more noise equals less performance which is why I was trying so hard to see them improved before they went on sale.

JP

 

[Andyy]

33 minutes ago, Jonathan Porter said:

In layman’s terms Saturation is where the concentrated highly magnetic mineralised pebbles and soils on the surface of the ground throw a field back at the Tx winding causing a small current to pass across the Tx which then manifests as a signal in your ears. You cannot ground balance out Saturation signal, it will always be there no matter what, unless you lower the Sensitivity, change Ground Type mode (EG go from Normal to Difficult) or use a less aggressive Gold mode (EG go from High Yield to General) or worst of all FILTER it OUT by introducing Audio Smoothing.

I am in full agreement that the GPZ is a great machine to use and fairly easy to learn.  The questions we ask are not intended to make the machine seem more difficult to operate or to make us look or feel smarter for asking the direct pointed questions, or to frustrate JP :)  The truth is, that the more information we have on how something works, also helps us solve current or future problems that might come up, whether it is some strange coil, setting experimentation, or who knows what.   Many terms are used and assumed (sometimes incorrectly) leading to misunderstanding information.  I prefer not to assume.  And the fact that we have someone like JP on here to explain this stuff, is much appreciated.  For example, if the questions were not asked, I would still be using the octopus style ground balancing, which can still end up leaving the machine not ground balance to its full capability. 

Anyways, I have found this to be a very healthy discussion. 

 

[Rob Allison]

Hey Guys,

   Thanks and I agree with you, I think the GPZ is the simplest big detector to use.  That being said, many customers want to know all this technical stuff when they haven't even purchased the detector or used it yet.  

I guess the main reason is the potential customers download the instructional manual from Minelab's website, read it briefly and don't see any of this info for the most part in the manual.  They then want to question, why isn't Minelab showing any of this important info on how the detector runs ...... 

I appreciate all the info JP and others.  Great learning for all of us.  

[cobill]

9 hours ago, Rob Allison said:

I guess the main reason is the potential customers download the instructional manual from Minelab's website, read it briefly and don't see any of this info for the most part in the manual.  They then want to question, why isn't Minelab showing any of this important info on how the detector runs ...... 

Rob, 

Yep, I was trained to use Auto GB 4 years ago and trusted the GPZ. Now, from the posts, tips, etc. I know I've NEVER had a good GB for the past 4 years and probably missed alot of gold!?

Good thing you can "teach an old dog new tricks".

Bill

[Jonathan Porter]

4 hours ago, cobill said:

Rob, 

Yep, I was trained to use Auto GB 4 years ago and trusted the GPZ. Now, from the posts, tips, etc. I know I've NEVER had a good GB for the past 4 years and probably missed alot of gold!?

Good thing you can "teach an old dog new tricks".

Bill

Things have changed in those four years Bill, I used to detect totally differently with the GPZ four years ago two. There’s been two upgrades in that time and everyone including Minelab have come to know ZVT tech a lot better. It’s easy to forget the GPZ is a first of its kind metal detector in the world, the complexity in getting the electronics to work in the first place were immense, thanks to Minelab its been achieved.

JP