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My Personal Method Of Ferrite Balancing


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"Not using a Ferrite means you will never know if your X balance is out, relying on Auto means you are relying on the detectors algorithm to find the X balance for you which is OK in soils were X signal is minimal, in Australia this (and Arizona because I have detected there) is not a good thing in my opinion. Using Quick-Trak could potentially exacerbate things because Quick-Trak forces the G and X tracking, if the detector does not get a good look at X signal during this stage the X balance will have to be out. This is not a problem if there is no X signal in your ground which is suggested by your GPZ successes.

X balance is needed because no electronics are exactly the same and prefect and no two coils are EXACTLTY the same and perfect, as such there can be slight temperature drift in ZVT allowing X signal to come through. This is especially true with the X coils.

The detector in the environment does not always know the difference between Salt signal, Saturation signal and X signal as such it can become confused if too much Salt signal or Saturation signal is present in Auto mode, this then could cause the X balance to no longer be optimal hence the release of the Ferrite to allow the detector to see an optimal X signal, this is why I advocate the use of Semi-Auto and the Ferrite to prevent this from happening, even for low X ground. The first GPZs had a very lively X balance in Auto mode which potentially allowed Salt and Saturation signals to interfere with the X balance, this was later refined in the first update and carries through to today.

Salt Ground can also have variable amounts of G and varying amounts of X signals as well as Saturation signals, you the operator cannot always tell mainly due to the Salt signal being so dominant. Having a good Ferrite balance that is fixed to the units operating temperature in this case is best, to avoid the X balance moving away from optimum. If X is not present then there is no issue. If Saturation is not present then there is no issue."

Hope this helps

JP

 

Thanks JP!

Bill

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JP

You have described the issue very well.  Now can you describe how far 'out' it could be and what are the potential missed targets?  What if someone just follows the prompts on the Z when they turn it on and swing over ground and no ferrite?

What I mean is ... do you have kind-of-a 'real world' example of a find(s) that have been made with the semi-auto balancing you describe vs the auto?  Is it like a 5% improvement, 10% or what?  More depth and/or more what?  And perhaps less noise ... etc.

I know many good detectorists in Cal-Az-Nv who just keep the same settings, do an EMI and run out and find more nuggets.  Some stay in auto and have not updated the machine.  Are they going to find more if they ferrite balance this way?

Mitchel

If this has been answered before just let me know.  I can't keep up with all the threads.

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2 hours ago, mn90403 said:

Are they going to find more if they ferrite balance this way?

So Mitchel in other words; if they go over exactly the same ground, in the exactly the same way, are they going to find more if they ferrite balance this way? 

 

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2 minutes ago, flakmagnet said:

So Mitchel in other words; if they go over exactly the same ground, in the exactly the same way, are they going to find more if they ferrite balance this way? 

 

I guess 'finding' is a user defined term.  We might not all hear a faint target but I just want to know the amount it is 'more sensitive' to either depth or certain types of gold.  Some of our finds are just based upon the amount of ground we cover.  The more the better.  That is not always true if you cover ground too fast (faster swing speed) then the target (gold) doesn't even make a sound.  So if coil control and all other variables are the same and the only thing you really change is the way you balance to ferrite how much additional performance should we expect out of a Z14 when you fix X in semi-auto?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/6/2019 at 2:22 PM, Jonathan Porter said:

Hi Rob, I instruct my customers to NOT use Quick Start because of two things, one it resets the GB, secondly it resets the Ferrite Balance and lastly it reverts the settings to FP if you select the “reset all” option.

Semi Auto Locks the Ferrite balance once you release the Quick-Trak button, this is especially important in Normal Ground Type Modes because these modes (especially High Yield) produce the loudest response on the Ferrite and also react the strongest to Saturation and Salt signals. This means in Auto Mode the Ferrite balance can be pulled away from optimum even a few feet from where you last performed the Ferrite balance. This is even more obvious with the GPZ19 coil BTW.

There is no need to reset everything unless the detector has gone into a state as described in a thread on this forum through running the machine in an environment that causes the GB state to go entirely out of whack. The GPZ remembers the GB and Ferrite settings on switch off so if your detector was running OK on switch off things will be pretty close at the next start up unless the temps are drastically different or the ground condition has drastically changed.

Another trick I do if the GB is way out (especially on new machines) is to use Quick-Trak and pump the coil till there is no noise then switch off and restart the detector then perform the Ferrite balance as described.

I usually do the Freq Adjust first thing by holding the coil parallel and away from the ground listening to the threshold and adjust either manually or doing an auto tune, once completed and I’m happy with the threshold I then check the GB is reasonable (Quick-Trak and pump if its bad then switch off then on again) then perform the Ferrite balance as described. Remember the Ferrite balance can only change if the detectors electronic change temperature so there is no need to use Auto mode which just adds an extra variable in an already variable environment. Cutting down on the amount of things that can change is a huge advantage, this is why I advocate using Manual GB when checking targets and during digging, less variables equals BETTER outcomes.

JP

 

I spoke to a very nice Minelab engineer in Australia  last night concerning JP's new Ground Balance(GB)  procedure and the use of Semi Auto GB. I informed him that I had concerns about the outdated GPZ manual and Knowledge Based Article "GPZ Tips for Better Ground Balance"...basically the lack of updated/detailed procedures on "what to do" for GB based on the ground conditions. He told me that the manual is very basic guidance, it provides instructions that will work for everyone and most people should use Auto GB. He did mention that Minelab might provide more on the subject in their Treasure Talk pages, because that is where opinion pieces are posted.:huh:

Thank goodness JP keeps us informed!

Bill 

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To be fair to Minelab the techniques I use have been developed by me during many long hours of GPZ use in many different areas around Australia in some extremely high X and variable X and G ground. The issue I have with the Super D coils, if you can call it an issue, is the way the GB will sound balanced when the coil is swung across the ground but the GB can be completely out as can sometimes be evidenced when the coil is pumped. So my techniques have been refined from day to day over the past four years, I inform forum readers of this not to create confusion but to hopefully improve people’s experiences with GPZ, probably kind off stupid giving away advantages but thats the way I roll. 

I also like to split/lift the coil up away from the ground when Ferrite balancing to clear ground effect in problematic areas such as Saturable ground and Salty ground (these two ground types generally go hand in hand in my areas), you can easily do this by placing the ferrite on a rock further away from ground effect or even perform the ferrite balance in the air with the coil flat using Quick-Trak. Once Quick-Trak is completed then just bring the coil to the ground (obviously I prefer to have the detector in Semi-Auto Ground Balance Mode), carefully pump the coil till the GB is correct then go detecting. When the threshold seems to get busy again just pump the coil occasionally to bring the GB back to accuracy (DO NOT USE QUICK-TRAK button when pumping the coil only ever use QT when you are performing or checking the Ferrite).

Hope this helps

JP 

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JP

It does help. It always helps. I have followed your changing methods over the years with regard to GB and find what you recommend now works great. When I know I have done the best GB I can, the best ferrite balance I can, I can trust the machine to give me it's best.

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