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Making A Patch Lead For Gpz7000

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53 minutes ago, strick said:

Strange that the designer of these coils was able to engineer the many different sizes of X coils that we have seen....which must have took forever to design, tool, mold and then make....but when it came to simplicity of the coil cable which would have been exactly the same for every coil he would have made....... and all he had to do was copy the original  minelab coil cable...he failed...right now I'm glad I did not get one of these and after seeing JW's coil cable in the above pics as compared to the original minelab coil cable...this is unacceptable...those spirals need to be tightly wound. 

strick 

Looking at my x-coil cables it seems the cable is different than the original Minelab cable. The Minelab one is much more flexible. The x-coil is more rigid.

I think because of this it would be a lot harder to make the curls smaller and closer together. The other thing i noticed was ripples on the inside of the cable curls which the Minelab cable doesn't have. Maybe the manufacturer put something over the cable (like heat shrink wrap) for some reason and this is the reason the cable is more rigid. 

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34 minutes ago, Jin said:

Looking at my x-coil cables it seems the cable is different than the original Minelab cable. The Minelab one is much more flexible. The x-coil is more rigid.

I think because of this it would be a lot harder to make the curls smaller and closer together. The other thing i noticed was ripples on the inside of the cable curls which the Minelab cable doesn't have. Maybe the manufacturer put something over the cable (like heat shrink wrap) for some reason and this is the reason the cable is more rigid. 

They have stiffer wire, my GPX X-coil could virtually be shaped and it's obviously not a curly cord

I could do this out of it

3734454.jpg

The famous Aussie coat hanger car antenna ?

 

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23 hours ago, Malleeboy said:

I think the metal plugs  might be getting a bit to close to the coil if you put them down there. The slightest bump of the coil against a rock etc could send it off.

 Mike. 

Years ago JP did a video clip of a gold nugget taped to a coil to show that the detector did not register a signal (you can do this for yourself to prove the point) due to the metal of the nugget moving with the coil motion. Not stationary & the coil moving independant to the nugget which of course will register a signal & is how we detect for gold with a detector & get signals. So the coils field does not see the gold because the metal is moving in sequence with the metal windings & field of the coil. But maybe the the detector does know the gold nugget, or something, is there on the coil but as it is in motion with the field it doesn't register a signal but maybe the detector compensates for it some other way internally which may impact a bit on max performance. Maybe the metal connectors on the curly cord could behave in a similar way if they are not allowed to move inside the coil shaft. If this may be the case then the connectors are probably better to be as close to the coil as possible.:unsure: One way to find out. ?? Who's game? I am more than happy with my set up & getting gold all over again from old patches, so it won't be me.

Good luck out there

JW ?   

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The connection would need to be both stabilized absolutely rock solid, yet also needs to be easy to remove and open so coils could be changed quickly. Building such a stabilizer would require precision. It's probably easier for the manufacturer to just pay for a professional cable to be made, get them from the US or Europe if need be - at over $1k per coil it should be doable even if the cables cost $50 each.

That far down the shaft I think the connectors might need to be encased inside a ferrite too otherwise the solder joints (or the outside of the metal connector itself if they are sufficiently shielded) could act like coils and cause interference even if they were immobile, same as with the solder joints inside the coil. Not sure if that would be enough distance or not.

Might be worth trying for the manufacturer, I already cut my only coil though. I've lost my enthusiasm for messing with this stuff personally.

If these coils plugged in directly and had a good cable I bet there'd be 1000 of them sold in the US alone over the course of a couple years. That's like over a million bucks in coils. The performance on the 12" and 17" spirals is worth the money IMO for people that can make the performance pay for itself. I mean, I wonder if a company came up to ML with $250,000 cash for a shipment of 2000 chipped cables, would ML turn them away still? That's the real solution there to make these a finished commercial product. And money always talks in business. The question is, how much?

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I still believe It will have an effect.  If I remember correctly in one of the videos posted recently about the steps of a coil manufacturer, one of the things tha manufacturer has to do is to tune out the metal in the detector.  Also, If metal did not make a difference, you would not be pulling wire in a straight line away from the coil as quckly as possible. in our vlf detectors.  This is a common practice preached by most dealers.  Anyways, I am not sure of any of this, but it is reason enough for me not to be adding any other metal close to that coil, attached or not.

 

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Theres a reason why the bolt that attaches the coil to the shaft on every metal detector I've ever seen are plastic and not metal lol I think you will loose lots of depth as you start placing stationary metal objects near the coil...but I'm no expert :smile:

strick  

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Strick, long ago Garret and others always had brass screws/nuts and an aluminum bracket to attach the coil to the lower rod. as long as everything was tight the detector worked fine. After some years everyone switched to plastic/nylon screws and nuts....

just a little history from 40 years ago...

fred

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15 hours ago, jasong said:

If these coils plugged in directly and had a good cable I bet there'd be 1000 of them sold in the US alone over the course of a couple years. That's like over a million bucks in coils. The performance on the 12" and 17" spirals is worth the money IMO for people that can make the performance pay for itself. 

Jason - I can understand your reasoning for thinking the 10" coil is not worth  the money.  It is expensive and best for the small gold.  But I gotta tell you, even this size coil, will get you even 1+ grammers and much larger simply because it will fit better between the river rock.  If I were to choose the perfect size coil for this, it would be the 8x6.  I LOVED this coil for getting in the cracks.  And it found a lot of gold on my GPX5K.  Most of the gold I find is no deeper than 6 or 7 inches.  I guess it all comes down to the purpose you want to use the coil for.  If it is to replace the 14" coil, then I am in 100% agreement.  I would use the other coils you mentioned.  But for those river rock areas where the 12 and 14" coils don't fit, it is good to have another option. 

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Andy, that's all true. But, I didn't say the 10" is not worth the money. It definitely might be for some people, as you and JW are showing. The kind of gold it excels on is stuff that you and him spend way more time on than I do, so I'm not really commenting much there since you guys can speak more to it than I can.

Don't forget that when I go prospecting I have a 2000 mile round trip, it's a significant expenditure for me and requires a lot of time off which means I'm not getting a paycheck at work during that time either. The only way I can go detecting is if I make it pay for me. So, I might approach prospecting differently than a lot of other people here. The 12" and 17" coils are coils I can see paying for me or a person with an approach like mine.

Here's why: I look at each coil I use relative to another coil. If I plot depths vs weights for the same nuggets on different coils, I end up with something (very roughly) like the following graph. Units are arbitrary.

coilcrossover.jpg.93e1021648a897d53d6feb208af9b83c.jpg

Generally there is a crossover point where one coil starts getting less or more depth on similar nuggets than the other does, and this is the point where one coil becomes more or less useful than the other coil to me. You saw, as I did too, that the crossover point between the Z14 and X10 is somewhere around 1/2 gram on typical gold. This changes with nugget geometry and composition.

So, any nuggets falling in the white (unshaded) portion of the graph represents nuggets missed by both coils. Nuggets in the red shaded portion represent nuggets found only by Coil 2. Nuggets in the gray shaded portion represent nuggets found by Coil 1, and in the gray shaded portion under the red line are nuggets found by Coils 1 and 2.

This is a rough approximation of how I observed the X10 performing relative to the Z14. So, it's easy to see all the nuggets in the red shaded area that the Z14 is missing entirely. 

However, the X12S comapred to the Z14 is different, the X12S line would be almost all above the Z14 at all points in the graph, and only misses a very small number of nuggets that the X10 gets ("missed" on the graph), mostly at the very smallest end of the scale (stuff that is much harder to get to pay as it take a lot of them to add up). This number is somewhere around 0.12-0.15 grams if I were to take a guess, emphasis on guess since I don't have enough tiny stuff in that range to actually test it. It takes a ton of that stuff to add up to a paying trip.

Think of the X12S as "Coil 3" here, and that small bit of black as the missed nuggets. Yet, it also seems to get a lot of stuff deeper than the Z14, I never found a true cross over yet, though it starts to perform quite similar around 5 grams and 16" deep, I didn't test deeper or bigger gold. 

coilcrossover2.jpg.0a0e9a32f7aa03b3ca1f0a90548db728.jpg

That's why the 12" and 17" spirals, to me anyways, seem like coils that will pay. I could easily find 2 or 3 ounces of stuff with them that the Z14 missed and use them every single day during regular exploration. With the X10 I think I'll struggle to get a half oz of stuff I missed and they'd only go on in specific instances of very rocky washes or very dense brush or potentially salt. Again, just relevant to the places I detect personally and the type of prospecting I do.

Other thing for me is that it's not a whole lot smaller than the 12" so those applications find limits for the 10" too.. Better, IMO, is to go with a 6x10. or 6x8. If a coil is going to be small, might as well be really small and manueverable. 10" is just too close to 12" while losing too much performance on deeper stuff to interest me personally. Especially since they can put the spiral windings in the 12" and above. The spiral windings seem to make an observable difference to me.

Lastly, on that segment of missed nuggets where the X10 excel over all other coils, my GB2 excels even better than the X10. And the GB2 costs $350 used. This is obviously not a solution in hot ground like yours, but I am very rarely in ground I can't run a VLF in.

If I could choose any sizes and shapes I would choose a 6x10, 17x12, and 18" round. That provides the least overlap when thinking in terms of graphs, and the largest amount of versatility to me as far as being able to detect all conditions and terrain. I don't personally find much use for round coils below 18" if I have a choice in the matter. 17" is close enough though, I'm pretty happy with the performance of that coil, it's hitting stuff smaller than the Z14 and hitting 5 grammers 2-4 inches deeper. That's performance that I can make pay - I need to average 2 grams a day when I'm out. That means I occasionally need 1/2 oz days to make up for the skunk days, and I can't do that with the 10".

So, there is more than you ever wanted to read about me explaining the meaning behind one sentence I wrote. :laugh:

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That’s exactly what the taskmaster told me out in the bush a couple of days ago. 

2.5gm/day was a minimum goal

This average will  keep you working and hopefully the big one will show up a few times a season.

cheers

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