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Tom Dankowski Tips For Low Mineral Ground


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57 minutes ago, Daniel Tn said:

Now, a great example of something I would have never thought to try:   I discovered this a couple weeks ago at a badly mineralized freshwater beach I hunt.  This particular beach, a machine like the CTX 3030 would null continuously due to the ground being so bad.  That particular machine wants to run single digit sensitivity there.  The Nox is extremely chatty in the Park and Field modes there. In fact, all machines I've had there are that way, some are useless at it.  Nothing is deep there, so the way I always hunt it is to just lower the sensitivity down to extremely low levels and scoop the solid hits.  This helps but does not eliminate the falsing on the Nox.  I read on one of the forums where another person was experiencing this, and had tried the Beach modes and they said their machine was quiet as could be.  By my understanding, the Beach modes on the Nox are just for salt beaches and salt water.  Everything you read on the forums say to use the other modes for freshwater.  Well guess what.  I gave the beach modes a try and the Nox is insanely quiet on this beach now. I can run my sensitivity up to 18-20 and not hear a sound until the coil is over something worth scooping.  See, I would have never figured to even try that since the books and manual says it's designed for saltwater use, and that there is no way to ground balance in it. 

Great example of "informed" experimentation.

You were right to experiment.  There are no absolutes.   People may use terms like X mode or Y setting is "Not recommended" for Z but that should not be interpreted to mean the same as "do not use", it simply means that X mode should not be your first choice in the specified situation.  That is why I agree with you that simply copying someone else's settings without knowledge of what those settings do means you are simply flying blind and guessing and INFORMED experimentation that comes through gaining as much book and practical knowledge about your machine is ideal.  I too find it frustrating that ML is not giving us more info about the secret sauce that differentiates the modes(but I also understand why they are not doing so), but I think I have filled in most of those gaps through swing hours and continued experience will only make me have a better intuitive feel for the Equinox.  It is a continuous process that never really ends unless I just stop swinging the detector and move on to something else.  But right now, there is nothing in existence that I would rather swing than the Equinox, Deus, or GPX (when needed).

When I make recommendations, I try to avoid "thou shalt" like statements as just about everything with respect to selection of settings and modes is about balancing tradeoffs.  In the case of use of the Beach modes at freshwater sites, I would say that if people are providing the proper context for their recommendations on why the other modes are "preferred" for freshwater sites, then no one should have come away with the idea that Beach modes should never be used in fresh water situations.  The reasons the other modes are recommended for fresh water, in general, is that you have the potential for better ultimate depth and/or the ability to hit harder on mid-conductive targets like small, gold jewelry.  The reason being that the Beach modes were designed for salt beaches because they are tuned to cancel out the salt signal and provide maximum stability. .  This results in a compromise that limits depth and can also create "holes" for certain mid-conductive targets that have phase shifts similar to Salt, and that usually means small gold.   Depth can be further limited in the Beach modes because reduced transmit power is used for Beach 2 AND in the case of both Beach modes, mineralized black sand can result in a further reduction in transmit power if the Beach Overload Warning is tripped.   The logic is that If you don't have salt to deal with then it makes sense not to also deal with these compromises, so preferentially use the other non-beach modes that can give you theoretically better performance. 

Ironically, the stability of the mode and reduced sensitivity to black sand by reducing transmit power is precisely what might make Beach modes killer at some freshwater sites that are noisy or have significant mineralization.  In fact, I plan to do some experimentation with Beach modes in mineralized ground which is something I hadn't even considered in the past.  Extremely mineralized ground conditions necessitate non-traditional approaches which means one could potentially have success with either the hottest mode (Gold mode) or the most stable mode (Beach mode), which is really counterintuitive.

BTW - I have never heard/read that you cannot ground balance an Equinox in the beach modes.  The manual certainly does not say that and in fact, recommends the use of tracking ground balance in the surf. Interested in where you saw that one.

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3 hours ago, Daniel Tn said:

Everything you read on the forums say to use the other modes for freshwater.

Great post Daniel. But not everything that is on the forums. You mean what you have read on the forums, which is not exactly the same thing. Mode names on Equinox are like the names on a GPX. They tried to come up with names to reflect a suggested use, when perhaps the better approach is call the Modes A, B, C, D, etc. Some GPX mode names are very misleading.

Many detectors get a target id number and also call it something, like a dime. Other detectors eschew this approach, because it’s only a guess. They give you the number and let you decide what it might be.

Assigning names to Modes is nothing more. Just a guess at a name that applies most to that mode. It never was intended to mean that’s the only thing that mode is good for.

What if I told you nobody, including the engineers, can tell you exactly why the modes and settings perform the way they do in all situations? I was on the development team and very little I post is a guess but the fact is nobody knows everything there is to know about Equinox. It would be easy to find something like this low recovery speed situation and surprise the engineers. They might then be able to come back after the fact and explain why it happened, but don’t believe for a minute they have all the answers when it comes to real world results. That is a collective work in progress still.

I don’t think anybody anticipated how good Multi would be on gold. Surprise!

This post says no reason not to use Beach Mode in freshwater

Here I say “The names have nothing to do with where I might use the modes.”

There is no reason at all why the other modes cannot be used to nugget hunt. Park 2 and Field 2 are both very hot on small targets and offer the ability to use tones while nugget hunting. Prospectors who encounter salt lakes/salt flat situations would do well to remember the Beach modes as possible last ditch settings.

And so on. If asked directly at any time I would explain to anyone that all modes are options for any hunting. I’ve mentioned or alluded to this many times.

My screed on GPX Fine Gold Mode Not Being For Fine Gold

I have been with Park 1 for normal detecting since day one and have advocated it but others said they do better on their ground with the “2” modes so I shrugged my shoulders and let it go. Bottom line though is getting stuck on anything and in particular letting mode names dictate where they are used... don’t do that. :smile:

Anyone that has followed this forum since day one and really grasped everything I have posted should have a pretty good idea about all this. I have to admit I fall into favorite modes and habits as much as the next guy, but there is a wealth of info on Equinox on this forum. I already wrote my book on Equinox and it’s free. A second reading starting at the beginning might be enlightening now that people have time under their belts. But no, I don’t know it all... things still surprise and frankly that’s why I love Equinox. I hate detectors with no “depth” and I’m not talking inches in the ground!

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On 8/2/2019 at 10:28 PM, Cabin Fever said:

I tried Recovery Speed 3 the other day with good success.. I hated pretty much every minute of it because of the drawn out audio but it did produce, even in the heavy trash areas.  I purposely hunted the same area that I had the week before using Recovery Speed 5 and 6 where I only pulled 3 old Nickels in 6 hours of hunting. My friend and I have been pounding this area since last fall and it had started to feel cleaned out..

When I went through on RS 3 this time I got 7 old coins. 3 Wheats, a Buffalo, a V Nickel and 2 Mercury Dimes.  The 2 dimes came from a section my friend and I have both gridded from multiple directions more the once, so they were definitely a surprise. Not a scientific test by any means but my friend didn’t get a single old coin out of the area while hunting with me running his MX Sport. It could have been that the drawn out audio was forcing me to slow down. Nothing was any deeper then usual. One of the Wheats had a large nail directly above it which was interesting given the signal was so good..  

My take on this experiment is just mix things up a bit when the area stops producing and see what happens..

Bryan

Excellent report Bryan, thank you. Honestly something that flies in the face of what I think anyone would expect. At least it’s sure not what I would expect. There is obviously something different about the way Multi-IQ and Recovery Speed work as opposed to how Deus and Reactivity work. We know Multi has built in ground canceling algorithms in place before the ground balance is even engaged and Multi no doubt has inherent ferrous handling that goes way beyond what single frequency can achieve. I think that’s what we are seeing now.

I wonder if you hit the area first with the low recovery speed, and then later with the higher recovery speed... which gets the best results on the first pass? I suspect you “nailed it :laugh:“ though. No one setting or mode is likely to get it all, and that we have to mix it up.

Still, I find this all surprising and Tom has opened up a whole new area of inquiry with a thread that started out being about iron bias but has morphed into a recovery speed mystery. It’s been an eye opener for me. Certainly an area where I have settled into a bad habit and now need to get out of my self imposed box and experiment more. Good stuff!

 

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I was experimenting with the Beach modes in hot ground when the Equinox first came out. Whenever I go to Culpeper for DIV I still find myself using Beach 1 most of the time. It definitely isn't just for the saltwater beaches.

 

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3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

"Great post Daniel. ....... I already wrote my book on Equinox and it’s free........"

Hi Steve,

I've searched the forum in vain to find your book. Is it an article or is there a real book or pdf?

Would you please direct this "blind" man to the link/download/order form? ?

Thanks and greetings,

Bob'ke

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It's all my posts on this forum. No, don't wait for a print version. If I had wanted to do that I would have used my inside track to have a book out the day Equinox launched and charged you all for what I gave away here for free. Would have sold a ton of them too! ?

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4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Still, I find this all surprising and Tom has opened up a whole new area of inquiry with a thread that started out being about iron bias but has morphed into a recovery speed mystery. 

If you jaded old timers got hit, imagine the impact Tom's thread, together with this thread has had on somebody new to this game! Just when I thought I was getting some Vulcan mind meld with my one and only, now the language has a long drawl and has me moving coil at a snail's pace. Slower recovery speed, 50 tones, gain as high as conditions allow, and no disc. There is a lot going on under the coil that requires everything I got ... Plus. Bordering on rude.?

Actually a very positive learning experience. Lately I had been going over a fresh and clean 10x30 patch where old junipers have recently been cleaned out near an old public building. Field 1 and 5 tones set for silent running looking for coins. Started with stock coil, went to 6 in when it started getting stingy. Of course I had to try out this new info and found a 1904 V nickel with the 11 inch coil. I also found a 1943 war nickel. Both firsts, but at this stage most everything is. Needless to say, I was thrilled and even though the old nickel is very worn it looks beautiful to me. And the long drawn out tone is one that I want to hear over and over.

Hunting in the shadow of fred_mason has been tough. I want to publicly thank him for leaving a couple of nickels for posterity.?

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I have so many ideas dancing in my head, many of which have been inspired by the Dankowski site thread and others by the responses here, my observations over the past 1 1/2 years (posts on this site just since the Eqx was released) and still others from my own experiences.  I'm now treading new ground using my just completed test station (not exactly "test bed", but in the same vein), also sparked by the Dankowski site thread and this thread.

We humans (and maybe it's unfair to generalize, because in many ways we are different) tend to look for simple solutions.  That works to get started, but in the long run if it is relied upon too heavily it becomes a crutch.  We're told (with good intention) to read and trust the manuals.  We're told (or at least led to believe) that the engineers at the detector companies know what they're talking about. Yes, they do, but that extent is limited.  Certainly theoretically they know, and in their (limited!) testing experience they know.  And they have field testers.  Those are a drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of thousands of detectorists out there.  The earth is way larger than all the test beds combined, by many orders of magnitude.  The (hidden) targets, likewise.  Books?  I have most of them and they are well-intentioned.  But could they possibly cover even a small percentage of situations?  If they don't admit to their limitations then I wonder how much they are worth..., and what the true intentions of their authors are.

This thread (and my last weekend's m/l bust hunt on virgin 1850's homesite) has opened my eyes -- thanks to all who have ever contributed to that.  I've only begun my testing but already I've found things that I didn't know, and maybe things others didn't know, or at least didn't publicize.  Unless I disappear, you're going to hear about those -- maybe more than you want to listen!

I've for quite a while been somewhat uncomfortable with this forum sub-topic ("Equinox fan club").  This isn't (as it never is) a slam at its intent -- I understand the reasons for its intitiation, but I think it has long since run the need for a "fan club" as it may be the most widely subscribed / most popular detector in history if you acount for its still short existance.  The main reason I feel uncomfortable is that, IMO, it paints a picture/heading that there is something unusual about the Equinox -- to the extent that other detectors don't share.  Maybe its uniqueness is true, but how much of what is written in this sub-forum applies to other detectors, even most detectors?  Certainly there is no prohitibition that readers of this sub-forum are required to own the Equinox, but I do feel that it alienates some, maybe even many -- sort of a clique.  I have mixed feelings because I'm glad this sub-forum informs many, but wish it would be more inclusive, open, welcoming of those who don't own Equinoxes because not only do the ideas posted in it have the potential to help them, but the reciprocal relation also exists (maybe even more strongly!) that other detectors' performances can enlighten Equinox owners, too.

I will state this -- the ideas posted on this thread prompted me to investigate (and appreciate) strengths of my other detectors.  As an example, the discussion here and on Dankowski has led me test and sample the universe of settings my other detectors offer.  As a specific example, I've noticed that the "Cache Locate (CL) process" of the F75 is more sensitive for small coins than any other process in certain conditions.  Who would have thought (not I) that "Cache Locate" meant better performance on individual coins?  But we see that kind of result when people experiment outside the box within the Equinox's many canned title settings -- Park, Field, Beach, Gold.  In some ways these are helpful headings but in others they are detrimental.

I've only been serious (and dedicated) to this endeavor for 4 years now.  I realize many here have been serious for four decades (or more).  So if you are thinking "yeh, I know that, what else is new" then I request that you go back to when you had four years (or less, because some here are newer than I) experience and put yourself back in those shoes.

Stay tuned because if I have anything to do with it you are going to be reading more, and I hope it's not just I who is shaking up the status quo.

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I've for quite a while been somewhat uncomfortable with this forum sub-topic ("Equinox fan club").  This isn't (as it never is) a slam at its intent -- I understand the reasons for its intitiation, but I think it has long since run the need for a "fan club" as it may be the most widely subscribed / most popular detector in history if you acount for its still short existance.  The main reason I feel uncomfortable is that, IMO, it paints a picture/heading that there is something unusual about the Equinox -- to the extent that other detectors don't share.  Maybe its uniqueness is true, but how much of what is written in this sub-forum applies to other detectors, even most detectors?  Certainly there is no prohitibition that readers of this sub-forum are required to own the Equinox, but I do feel that it alienates some, maybe even many -- sort of a clique.  I have mixed feelings because I'm glad this sub-forum informs many, but wish it would be more inclusive, open, welcoming of those who don't own Equinoxes because not only do the ideas posted in it have the potential to help them, but the reciprocal relation also exists (maybe even more strongly!) that other detectors' performances can enlighten Equinox owners, too.

The forum was set up the way it was because when the Equinox was first released, it was getting unreasonably bashed by trolls before it even hit the market. This forum was designed for people who wanted to get away from all that. It also allowed me to keep tight control over the information I was posting, to either modify or delete if need be. I was walking a very careful line that no other tester wished to tread.

Perhaps that time has passed. I have renamed the forum the Minelab Equinox Forum. As far as who joins, what detectors they use, and what they discuss... this website is designed ultimately as an information repository. I could meld all the forums back into one giant forum with all discussion about all brands and all models all on one forum, but I do not believe that is in the best interest of those seeking information. A Garrett owner does not want to wade through pages of Equinox posts looking for something relevant to their machine. It only makes sense to sort forums by category. The original DP forum still gets posts on variable subjects, but after they get to page 6 I move them to appropriate locations where they can be more easily located in the future. The software of this forum is perfect for that as links never break when I move stuff.

Most people here have owned or do own many detectors, and nobody has ever limited anyone from being members of multiple websites and forums. You will never have the a situation where one forum is the ultimate source for all information. However, with the name change I will let any and all discussion of the Equinox go forward without intervention of any sort other than enforcing the "no attacking other members rule". If you are not a fan of the detector, now is your chance to let it all hang out. If something gets seriously out of hand, please use the "Report Post" function and I will step in and look at the situation.

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