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Simplex / How They Do It ?


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33 minutes ago, Jim McCulloch said:

I have read every post in this topic twice...... Perhaps the most highly promoted "soon to be released" mega-performance metal detector was the Troy Custom Detectors Shadow X-7. For nearly a year numerous detectorists, claiming to be using prototypes, hyped that this machine would ramp TCD to the top, and put all other manufacturers out of business. HH Jim

Hmmmm, on reading it all again myself I see nothing at all being said about the Simplex being a “mega-performance metal detector”. How about a decent 12 kHz detector with performance in line with the last half dozen single frequency machines this company has already produced? With more features than other single frequency detectors selling for twice as much.

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Steve, my "mega performance" comment was solely directed to the Shadow, being a direct quote from their original TCD advertising. Like yourself, I prefer to take a "wait and see" attitude regarding manufacturer or dealer performance claims.

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 Hahahaha  

 I ask the Simplex question How they do it and Steve gave me a great reply. I don’t know what happen after that but somewhere we jump the track  

I must say everybody posted their opinion even if it wasn’t on my original question. I don’t have trouble with that because nothing better than a active forum.

 Not to express your opinion is a dead forum and none of us want that .

 Chuck 

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I thought it was just a great discussion where one idea leads to another and some great commentary that actually all does relate back to your original question. I appreciate it Chuck as it was kind of my last shot at getting up on a soapbox and pontificating about an industry in which I have had a near life-long interest. It’s been a lot of fun over the years being a gadfly trying to push and nudge things when the opportunity arose. There are a few places along the way where I was able to make a difference and I am happy about that. Going forward I am content to just sit back and watch what happens, more observer than involved party.

For years we were caught in this place where companies thought a new coat of paint, a new decal, and a different coil made for a new detector. It was making me kind of crazy watching other tech industries make huge gains while the detector industry offered this lame excuse about being a niche industry where expecting that kind of progress was unrealistic. The only thing that can fix that kind of thinking is real competition, and thankfully I think we have now entered a new phase where that actually exists. Individual companies may suffer but it can only be good for us, the metal detector users.

The irony is some people liked getting what they decided was “the best” metal detector and then being able to feel comfortable for years they had the best machine. Now I have actually seen complaints of too many new models coming too quickly for them to keep up! :laugh: Might as well get used to it as times have finally changed in this quiet little backwater of an industry. Personally, I could not be happier with where we are as consumers and end users right now. Happy Days! :smile:

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2 hours ago, phrunt said:

Even my door bell has improved, first it was wireless, then long life batteries, then waterproof exterior button and now I can even have a camera on it to see who's at the door and don't get me started on all the tunes it can play, no longer just "ding dong", it can even talk to greet people. 🙂

My door bell is probably what the house came with in 1968. It let's me know when someone is there. What else does it need to do?

It's always easier to add flashy bells and whistles than it is to functionally improve performance.  My compound bow is 6 years old. The company has released 2 to 4 new models every year since it was made but none of them are functionally any improvement over the one I have, just a bunch of hype.

Metal detectors detect metal.  EM field science is pretty set and settled.  It's much harder to functionally improve metal detectors.  I dont even expect the simplex to do it. They are just taking lots of useful known specs and making them much more affordable. If it detects no better than a similer frequency machine from 10 or 20 years ago but is waterproof, has TID, and a simple to use notch function at a fraction of the price I'm happy.

I really have no idea where I'm going with this and thought about deleting it. But after pecking it out with my one finger typing I dont really want to do that either. All I really wanted to say is my door bell is 50 years old and I couldn't care less.😀

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30 minutes ago, Lacky said:

It's always easier to add flashy bells and whistles than it is to functionally improve performance.  My compound bow is 6 years old. The company has released 2 to 4 new models every year since it was made but none of them are functionally any improvement over the one I have, just a bunch of hype.

Metal detectors detect metal.  EM field science is pretty set and settled.  It's much harder to functionally improve metal detectors.  I dont even expect the simplex to do it. They are just taking lots of useful known specs and making them much more affordable. If it detects no better than a similer frequency machine from 10 or 20 years ago but is waterproof, has TID, and a simple to use notch function at a fraction of the price I'm happy.

Your post hit the nail on the head Lackey. The “more depth” hook has been a red herring for ages. Single frequency detectors get no more depth now than my old Compass Gold Scanner Pro did back in the 80s and that’s a fact. I’ve seen a lot of neat features and ease of use added since then, but more depth in single frequency VLF... not really. People who genuinely need real depth do not use VLF detectors, they use a high power PI or a GPZ.

Single frequency VLF is old, mature tech and any company with even minor engineering chops can make a good one. The ONLY thing that can be offered in single frequency VLF now is VALUE in the form of better packaging and lower prices. The high end future belongs to multifrequency/hybrid detectors now.

And with that I really am getting off my soapbox! :laugh:

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While I am glad to see this detector is nearing release I'm really wondering how many bugs will be in the initial offering units. In the grand scheme of things we really do not know how long they have worked on this but surely it has not been much time. How about some positives on this detector so far?

  • Waterproof to a reasonable depth
  • Looks strongly built
  • Backlit display
  • Non-complicated operation
  • Wireless audio capable (although not many details on that, do they mean their proprietary headphones or more generic compatibility like the Equinox has?)
  • Notch Capable
  • It's very reasonably priced

Now let's get on down to more technical stuff. It's single frequency with minor shifting to reduce interference it says. However, just how good is the shielding inside of this detector? How about the coil construction-is it worth having or is it a really cheaply made coil that will be weak in the field and pick up a lot of noise from the environment? These things matter a lot. We live in a world full of radio waves and electrical noise. To me personally what detector makers should be working on now is a better way to filter out interference.

There was some discussion on how this detector will process signals. Will it be a faster processing unit or slow as a tick.  While no one is expecting a high end detector at this price it would be truly annoying if this Simplex is a very slow swinging type detector, and unable to process at a speed which a lot of detectors do today.  Again, will this detector be using the cheapest components available with higher variation (think resistors and such, 5% vs 10% vs more,etc.)

The most important thing though is how will they service the customer after the sale. Will they ask you to send it in and keep it a couple months to repair it. We just don't know at this point. While I realize Dilek does a wonderful job one person can only do so much.

I'm not knocking Nokta/Makro or the Simplex. However what they do not have is the money and service presence a lot of older detector companies have. With any new product there WILL BE problems, and a bad release can tarnish a lot of people's memories for a very long time.  I remember when I bought my first detector and got back into detector after a decade of being away from the hobby. It was a Makro Multi Kruzer. I truly regret buying it because it was a lemon. And at that point and waiting quite a few days for a response concerning the problems they wanted pictures and video of the problem. By then I had already sucked it up and taken a loss, trading the machine off. So yes, I have seen the bad side of their units. When it did work a short amount of time before it got worse the target ID was very erratic, and the machine itself was very susceptible to interference. It never would ground balance, among the other problems.

Long story short, I'm not against trying another Nokta/Makro product but I would not be willing to spend a lot on a higher end model they offer until the company matures a bit more and has a higher service and repair presence with documented and maintained customer happiness after repairs. While we have already seen the demise of Tesoro, many others in this thread have thrown rocks at White's, Garrett, and First Texas/Teknetics/Fisher in an almost wishful way for them to fold up. If they do fold up, what will we have then? I will tell you what- Far worse prices and even less innovation and competition.  Nokta/Makro is doing us all a service by being competitive, and I will give them that. But are they Sprinters or marathoners? Those other companies mentioned above that are still in business are marathoners. They've been around a good while, especially Garrett and White's. Notice I'm not mentioning Minelab? I'm not because their arrogance and price gouging is well documented. Do they make good stuff- yes they sometimes do but charge us a lot of money for it and in the past their service sucked. It's better now but let's see how long they will maintain that.

Something is for certain, If there was less competition Minelab would go right back to how it was a short time ago, charging outrageous amounts of money for their product. And White's? Yeah I agree their stuff is overpriced too.  After some time out in the market, and after a fair amount of reports come back YES I would be willing to try the Simplex out.

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26 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Thanks Rob, It's great to read different perspectives and it's good to see everyone can have this discussion in a very constructive manor and not get fired up at each other and upset when someone disagrees with them, it's a testament to the forum Steve's created and the great users it attracts as this is likely a very controversial subject to many.  It's all just opinions and what a person thinks suits them best doesn't necessary reflect what suits everybody else, especially when different countries are involved.  We can't even buy White's detectors here and shipping out of America is crazy, I can't think of a more expensive place to get something shipped from. UK is cheap, China is usually free, Ukraine is cheap or free (For Mars/Nel coils) Australia is cheap... 

Shipping is a rip off here in the US, that much is a given. We have to deal with high shipping costs within the country and even from state to state. Big companies like FedEx getting richer with every package.

I use a Mars Pinpointer and must say it is the best pinpointer I've ever owned. There are some really hungry companies not in the USA that are making a quality product (like the MarsMD pinpointer mentioned). While I would prefer to buy and use things made in my own country that is getting harder to do. Quality has decreased horribly, the price has risen and "Made in the USA" doesn't mean what it once did. This isn't just concerning metal detectors. Feels like to me it is that big companies here could care less about what they are making anymore. Their goal is to get richer and spend less on the products to get there.  It's a shame we built one of the longest operational spacecraft here in the US back in the 70's (The Voyager 2) but today we struggle to make the simplest of things and have them last for a reasonable amount of time. The problems are clear- greed, complacency, arrogance, and laziness. Not a doubt in my mind that Whites and Garrett could make some really groundbreaking detectors if they truly wanted to but there is nothing yet pushing them hard enough to do so. Will they wake from their slumber and realize it is 2019 now, and people have changed. I remember when I was young time and again I was told that you could tell if something was good or not by seeing how it "felt". The heavier the better was the old-timers thought process. But once you get older, start having some pains due to accidents or injuries that solid product becomes a real pain literally to enjoy using.

Even XP lowered their prices. And hey, they created a really innovative product. Competition keeps manufacturers honest, even if it is delayed honesty.  Not picking on XP here, they make a nice product. Who would have ever thought such a light detector could be so strong and actually work. But they got it right, and I don't know if anyone else can quite match what they've done. At least they relented on price. No such sign of that from a lot of the others.

The thing or things a person enjoys is the beauty in us all because it is different for every person. All I know is that I want something that works and if I take care of it doesn't fall apart in my hands or cease to work after a day. If I must pay more, let me know it is worth it and stand behind it.

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Rob, I agree with much of what you are saying and definitely take a wait and see approach myself. I dont think anyone is wanting the other companies to fold though.  They want, and have wanted for years, for them to be innovative and lead markets again. When a former market leader stops leading people get frustrated,  their loyal fans most of all.

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It's worse than that Rob. Many companies actually design products to fail after a certain number of use cycles so that the product has to be repurchased. It's a sad state of affairs.

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