Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted the following on a particular site and almost immediately picked up ridicule for adjusting the TDI in the manner stated. I'm a very open person and can take constructive criticism if need be.

After several hours hunting with the TDI SL I finally found the perfect settings for this particular site. This place is littered with the waste bi-product of burnt coal over many years. Much of the waste is small in size, ranging from BB to marble size and the smaller pieces easily attract to a magnet. In addition to that, the area is littered with nails ranging from 1 to 4" in length and some up to 4" deep. These nails, especially the larger ones give a good audio, especially with a ground balance of 8-9. After a suggestion from Reg, I began adjusting the GB to 4-5 and if the signal became inconsistent then the target was most like a nail. After a lengthy amount of hunting I decided to run the machine at gain max, pulse 10 and GB of exactly 5. Surprisingly the false signals all but stopped and I started finding old copper pennies some being wheat pennies in an area where I had gridded off and cleaned out of all good targets. Amazingly, I still can't believe I had missed that many targets with my other machines.

Now my next plan is to locate, what I believe to be good non-ferrous targets with the SL and mark each location. Then use my regular VLF machine and see if I can detect each target and note the audio responses given. Many things to consider in this journey, very excited to say the least.

Well it seems some people on other sites think it is a sin to adjust the TDI the way I did in the following statement. I want to add one thing; the ground I hunt is very unique. All I'm stating below is what I observed and found to be true at this site on this day. I'm very well aware the best settings would be GB 8 and pulse 10, but the ground does not allow the best settings to be used to produce what I'm looking for. Coins mixed in with heavy coal waste made of iron, BB size to marble size to be exact.

Well, went back to the same site where I posted, "perfect settings for this site" and hunted a small area not more that 60' from the prior hunt. Used the same settings "GB 5, pulse 10 and gain max" and off I went. After a short while I noticed a lot of clipped or inconsistent audio reports. Decided at that point to reduce gain to 7 and continued. Hunted a few more feet, still clipped audio, strange, so I stopped to analyze the area a little more closely, sweep in one direction and get a some what good audio, but the return sweep was either silent or chatter. Suspecting something was the cause I stopped and increased the pulse delay up a tad, nothing changed. Continued to increase the pulse until I reached 17 and suddenly the audio came through as a loud, almost overload low tone. Thinking it might be a nail; I dug and out came a copper penny at less than 4" deep. Now to say the least, I was excited and puzzled.

Decided to start over where I started hunting and experiment using a pulse rate of 17. A few moments later came the same type of loud low tone. Thinking there is no way I missed that one my first pass I changed the pulse to 10 and the signal all but disappeared. Increased the pulse to 20 this time and spent over 5 minutes rotating around this target checking from every possible angle to see what might be causing the anomaly, switched the conductivity switch to all and still a consistent low tone with nothing else mixed in. Now one must keep in mind I'm using the stock 12" and at times it is very difficult to exactly pinpoint where the target actually is. Changed the pulse to 10 and the low tone practically disappeared. Now I was wishing I had brought my Deus to recheck some of these inconsistent signals, maybe next time. Well anyway I dug a nice plug and out came a wheat penny at less than 5" deep. I was very excited to recover something from an area that quit producing years ago.

Continued hunting with settings of pulse 20, GB 5 and gain at 7, and found many more coins dated in the early 60's all within a 3' path some 60' long. Already planning what I'll do my next hunt.

What I learned from this hunt:

Regardless of what some may say, don't assume you have the best settings for any site especially the sites where coal waste has been discarded for many years.

I'm suspecting the partial or complete cause of the anomalies is the small BB size waste particles from the coal fired furnaces that will easily attract to a magnet. In fact dropping a strong magnet into the same hole where a coin was revealed exactly that.

I'm relativity sure I need a mono coil, but undecided as to what I'll get.

More reports to come.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

 You should expect a stern warning and perhaps some disciplinary action from he owner/ moderator of this forum. These actions may be avoided if you promise to return your TDI to the settings used by the "experts" and tamper proof the controls with super glue.

   EE GADS! If the danged thing works by holding the coil in your hand and dragging the control box on the ground THAN DO IT! Experimenting with a detector and sharing your discoveries and opinions seems to always be welcomed and appreciated here. 

What type of operation occurred where you are detecting?

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, experiment, try new things - most importantly, do what makes detecting fun for you! Thanks for the detailed post Mark. I think anyone tackling coin detecting with a PI and having any success is doing great. It is not considered a "normal" use of a PI but the TDI due to its manual adjustments can work some magic.

Steve's Guide to White's TDI Coin Settings

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/25/2015 at 6:44 AM, klunker said:

 You should expect a stern warning and perhaps some disciplinary action from he owner/ moderator of this forum. These actions may be avoided if you promise to return your TDI to the settings used by the "experts" and tamper proof the controls with super glue.

   EE GADS! If the danged thing works by holding the coil in your hand and dragging the control box on the ground THAN DO IT! Experimenting with a detector and sharing your discoveries and opinions seems to always be welcomed and appreciated here. 

What type of operation occurred where you are detecting?

This is an old school yard.  The schools in my area burn coal for heat.  They take the waste from the furnace and spread in the school yard.  The majority of this bi-product easily attracts to a magnet.  All this happened many years ago, now the EPA requires waste be taken to the land fill.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people might think what is happening is not explainable but there really is a simple explanation.  What is interesting is the reason these same coins were not found with the best of VLF's is the same basic reason and that is masking of a target by another target.  Unfortunately, trying to explain it could easily take a book or at least a chapter of information. 

Now, with that said, my response will be shortened considerably from what is really needed, but I will try to supply the gist of what happens and why. 

Turn the delay to 10 usec and use the All mode and you will hear both high tones and low tones over the ground Mark is hunting.  I know, Mark sent me a sample of the "dirt" for me to test.  So, why did advancing the delay suddenly cause the low tone "good" targets to be heard?  Again, the answer is simple, the high tone signals diminished sufficiently such that they were no longer a problem once the delay was advanced.

When you ground balance the detector, you end up with the ground signal balanced out.  All targets that are high tones have a target characteristic shorter than the ground signal.  

By target characteristic I mean if the intensity of the target is the same as that of the ground, then the signal would decay faster and would disappear before the ground signal because of the delay settings.  Increasing the intensity of the target signal causes the balance point to also be increased

Ever go over a camp fire place location and notice the ground signal increases?  Now, some of you may think you are detecting the old pieces of burnt wood, but that is not the case.  You are detecting the ground minerals that have transitioned because of the heat from the fire.  Because the intensity of the ground signal has increased, then a simple small advance of the ground balance control will cause this increased ground intensity signal to be balanced out.  Normally, a weak gold signal will not balance out this way.

Getting back to the ground where Mark is hunting, changing the delay and not the ground balance has a similar effect.  Advancing the delay can cause weak high tone target responses to diminish.  If such high tone targets diminish sufficiently, then deeper good low tone targets will become he dominate signal and will be heard. 

If the high tone signals are small weak targets then even raising the coil rather than scraping the ground can cause such high tone signals to diminish sufficiently that they are no longer a problem then either.  Since coin size objects will normally be detected deeper by using a larger coil, then the use of a larger coil plus raising the coil some may not require advancing the delay.  Fortunately, copper and silver coins have a very long time constant, that advancing the delay cause very little depth loss.  So, often it is advisable to advance the delay also.

So, a simple response to Mark's problem would be to advance the delay sufficiently.  Then use a larger coil to reduce small signal responses, and finally, raise the coil a little. 

So, how much should you advance the delay?  Well, that takes practice but a simple turn of the delay control and listening to the high tone signals will help.  Advance the delay sufficiently that the weak high tone responses diminish if possible or at least are reduced noticeably. 

In summary I have mentioned advancing the GB when checking ground hot spots, advancing the delay when eliminating weak high tone signals, using a larger coil to reduce weak high tone signals, and finally raising the coil a little. 

In Mark's case, advancing the GB is probably not advisable. Instead, selecting High conductor and reducing the GB while increasing the delay will most likely be the best solutions.  Add using a larger coil plus raising the coil while hunting just may help also. 

Steve is absolutely correct, experiment, try different settings of the controls, but more importantly, learn just what each coil does or is supposed to do.  The controls are on the detector to be used.  The key is to know when and why a control should be moved. 

Reg

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Reg has been So Patient Ever since the SL came out Answering questions, When it comes to the SL despite my findings I still Ask Reg, If you find something that works for you That's Great, and what ever others say, Reg is Still The Best Man For the Job,

I think it's great how you have got Coins popping out of the Ground, Keep up the Good work, I would like to know why your VLF never saw Them.

Thanks for Your Post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing and very clear answer Reg.  Thanks so much.  I'm convinced I need a mono coil in place of the stock 12".  Had something very interesting happen or yet discovered about the TDI that I might share when I prove it to be fact.  Well Reg most likely already knows.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Only this morning I read one of Steve's articles when he was at Moore Ck. and how he adjusted a machine to suit a different patch of ground on tailing heaps.  

Delete the slagging you copped from the chatterati.  They've got little else with which to amuse themselves.  Besides if they were any good at all at this business they'd be out on their boat with a beautiful woman drinking expensive champagne that they bought with all the gold they found with the TDI that hadn't been adjusted.

LOL!!!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

They Can't I got the Boat and took the Girls, lol

Seriously I am fooling with my SL and because it is a Manual type machine makes it harder when starting out with it but once you get to grips with it starts to make sense, sometimes it seems like the more I learn the Less I know and the key to using it is NOT to over think It.

John

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Similar Content

    • By oddcoiler
      Speaking of PI detectors.
      Now that Garrett has aquired  White's.
       How about a multi frequency Whites TDI ???
        98 frequencies from the Infinium.
      Added to the Whites TDI with it's incredible ground tracking and ground balance.
       That sounds interesting !
       
    • By bamajoe
      I have a TDI SL coming in today. I know most people want to detect for small gold. In my bad soil I want to detect silver coins that my CTX3030 can't reach. I'm a long way from the beach and probably long way from gold. That leaves coins and relics.  I've heard that larger coils tend to ignore small trash which sounds good for a coin hunter. I know that if you raise the delay that this helps but with a loss of depth. A 12" dual field and 7.5" dual field are coming with the machine.  What could I get that would be better suited for detecting coins?
    • By JohnnyRox
      Which do you think will hit deeper on wet sand?  I'd prefer a TDIBH over a DF but I'm budget limited.  
    • By PPP
      HI!
      Just wondering if it is worth selling my garrett sea hunter and Equinox 600 to buy a TDI beachhunter instead? of couars the money i will make selling thoese two detectors is not enough to buy a TDI Beachhunter and i have to put som extra money on that.Please help! I want just more depth in saltwater and think TDIBeachhunter goes deeper than thoese two
    • By larryw
      I currently use a Equinox 800 and I consider myself to know absolutely everything about it. There really isnt anything that anyone can tell me about that machine that i havent mastered and completely already know. Its probably the most simple machine to use on the planet. I understand all the settings and I even know how to exploit the machine to get the results that i want when i want and i know how to get the maximum depth possible on the machine. I can even get a 22 inch air test on a silver quarter. Not too many people know how to do that and it is very relevant when you hunt in places with fill dirt and sand. 
      So I have been completely cleaning out all double beeps, every single piece of trash, every sliver of aluminum foil, every rusty nail, Every single pull tab, piece of a pull tab, tip of a pull tab, chocolate coin discarded foil etc etc etc.  Some of these places i have been electronically sifting wont even give a double beep on ANYTHING anymore with the Equinox 800. I dont care about VDI i just dig it all at this point. I try to force out double beeps. It just doesnt happen anymore in these places ive been pounding. Ive used all 8 modes with several different settings and I now consider these places PRIME PROPERTY for a Pulse Induction Machine in order to find more targets.  These places are so clean that I wont even have to tug around the 800 to cross check the beeps because the 800 cant hit anything else there anyway.
      So i need advice on a purchase. We all know Whites has ended production. But ive always been interested in the TDI pulse machine. Right now you can pick up the Whites TDI Metal Detector with 12” Waterproof Spider Search Coil & Bundle for about 999.95 plus tax and shipping.  I have read some old reviews of this machine and some people claim that this thing is an absolute beast at the beach. Ive seen videos of people making water proof boxes and tying it to there body just so they tug this thing along the water and get that unbeatable depth with it. Some of these guys are claiming they get about 3 foot of depth with it while wearing ear phones.  I find that very interesting but i dont plan on using it at the beach. 
      I need a machine strictly for coin/relic and jewelry hunting AT THE PARKS and other places on Dry land That the equinox 800 just cant find any more targets at, even after 2 weeks of straight rain. 
      I think my max in depth dig on the ground with the 800 was about a 12 inch Large Cent, and it was basically on a hillside. 
      So i cant find any information about the depth of coins that the WHites TDI can detect.  I have Trimes in neighborhood and half dimes too. The equinox will struggle to find those targets that have been in the ground for over a 100 years at about 6 to 7 inches. Can a TDI pull those targets at 12 inches if they have been in the ground for over a hundred years? Whites has taken down their forums and i cant find any relevant information about coin hunting with the machine. Why is TDI cheaper than a V3I? I know that my 800 is superior to the V3I because i used to own one. The V3I is just a VLF machine. If the TDI is a Pulse machine should'nt the detectable depth for coins/jewelry/relics be better and deeper than a VLF?
      I dont want to dump a grand on a machine with 10 year old technology if my VLF is going to be superior to it. I really don't want to buy a Garret ATX with its 8 year old technology for 2 grand, when i can probably wait until Minelab releases this GPX 6000 specs information. Thats probably when you can get a good deal on a used GPX 5000 for 2 grand or less on ebay.
      USED GPX 5000 > Garret ATX at that price point.    But if a TDI is all need, THat would save me a grand. I dont care about going to gold fields and looking for gold flakes or nuggets. I care about digging up the history where i live at. I could get just as lucky in my village and dig up a silver coin worth $50,000 or more as you could get lucky finding a gold nugget of the same value in the dessert or mountains, RISKING YOUR LIFE FOR IT... Ive read that a Garret ATX and the Whites TDI perform about the same as far as depth of coins is concerned. So I guess i have 2 options, A whites TDI for 1 grand, or wait and try to get a USED GPX 5000 when they go on sale after the GPX 6000 specs release.
      Is a TDI going to be sufficient for my needs? THanks!
    • By karelian
      A year full of distractions, so yes I kind of did forget about this project. All parts had been ordered and arrived in good time.
      Assembly to follow in the next few days... with photographs and a performance test on the modified Pro I still have..
      I'll take it steady and do it right, get the soldering tidy and follow the plan..





×
×
  • Create New...