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New Update Has Arrived


Dan(NM)

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On 9/28/2019 at 1:44 AM, Chase Goldman said:

Actually, the 600 vs. 800 iron bias correspondence table in the updated manual does not differentiate between FE and F2 iron bias settings for the 600 and has definitely changed from the previous "non-F2" version that was 1/2, 2/4, 3/6 to now 1/3, 2/6, 3/9 for BOTH FE and F2.  Yet that is inconsistent with the line in the manual that comes right before the table that states, "EQUINOX 600/800 Iron Bias Setting Equivalents
The following shows the equivalent Iron Bias settings between the 
two models. EQUINOX 600 offers fewer adjustment increments and 
a lower maximum Iron Bias than the 800 model.EQUINOX 600/800 Iron Bias Setting Equivalents"

So either ML's updated "Equivalents" section is in error or ML actually changed the 600 firmware so the maximum 600 setting of 3 now corresponds to 9 vice 6 on the 800.  My money is on a typo in the new table, but as a minimum the wording is inconsustent with the table in the updated manual, so something needs to be fixed to remove the ambiguity for 600 users.  Hmmm.


Screen shots from each version of the manual are inserted below:

Old Manual Upper/Updated Manual lower:

 

SmartSelect_20190928-014457_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

SmartSelect_20190928-014118_Drive.jpg

Thanks for the detailed info on the Equinox 600.  As a 600 user I would like clarification on this as well.

If you happen to hear back please share.

I think Minelab should have made the settings using the same numbers across both models.  Sure the 800 will have more granularity but then the 600 user can easily compare settings without having to do the mental conversations. Example 0,3,6,9 versus 0,1,2,3

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8 hours ago, 2Valen said:

I have to learn what I have now before I start updating. I am still learning the 800 and want to know it before I mess it up with a update.

I disagree.  Don't learn what you don't need to know.  Go with the update and learn that.  If they would have issued the Equinox with these updates then they would have field tested and lab tested away its problems. 

We had lots of complaints about the old versions ... that is why it got changed.  Now it is the best Nox it can be until the next update.

This is much preferable than someone telling you the Vanquish is a gotta have detector.  It is better than the Equinox.  That is what they said when the Equinox came out for it to replace the 3030 for many of us.  I think they should issue a software update for the 3030.  It has a computer connection.

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19 hours ago, mn90403 said:

My ears have learned a lot since my first usage of the 800.  I can still remembered how I didn't understand it so much I thought I was going to hate it.

I mostly All Metal my beaches around 23 on sensitivity.  Then I make sure it is balanced, the targets are loud and then I'll adjust recovery speed as necessary.  The bias has not been much of a concern as I tend to dig it all and lately the negative iffys can be a good 'odd' target or deep one.  If I don't here it then I can't decided to dig or not to dig in combination with the screen info.

Yesterday I had a long beach session and tried the FE and FE2 at 4.  I don't know what I didn't hear but I dug 100 targets (4 junk rings including a stainless steel that had surface numbers of 1, 12, 14, 20 and 2 of them were negative before I dug them) and learned a bit of the new sound.  More will be revealed.

HI Mitchel,

Which coil are you using on the beach now?  I'm up in in Humboldt and have been using the 15" this summer. I also try to run at 23 sensitivity and move the recovery speed around as needed. I used the 15" with the new software and will switch to the 11" coil. IN general the 15" is fatiguing due to sensory overload. We do have lots of black sand but not so many targets.

 

Cheers,

Tim

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Tim,

I have the same feeling about the 15" coil on my Southern California beaches.  I don't want to miss the odd sound or subtle sounds and the 15 has 'too much information' for some of my beaches.  I get plenty of depth with my 11.  It is my preferred coil but there are times for the 15.

I've not used the 15 with the new update.  I'll try it in the next couple of days because the waves have been small and the targets are far between also.

Mitchel

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Good video though incomplete.  I'll explain below.

The update may actually matter to you, Simon, in regards to nugget hunting.  Specifically, the question remains whether FE = 0 (ostensibly iron bias "off") is the same as F2 = 0.  Per some of the other Dankowski forum discussions and Clive Clynick, the bias curves may intersect "0" at different points.  Or put another way, some are saying that F2 = 0 is "less" than FE=0 making it more "all metal", so to speak.  The above video seems to debunk that as FE seems to give similar performance to F2 on iron at 0, but the key is whether F2 at 0 unmasks nearby non-ferrous better than FE at 0 (i.e., any level of iron bias can negate the positive separation effects of higher recovery speeds, so if FE =0 can still be subject to masking and F2 = 0 is less susceptible, you might want to go with F2 = 0 vice FE=0 when nugget hunting).  She does not really test the effect of FE vs. F2 bias effects on nearby targets, plus the fact that she is basically doing an "in-plane" air test.  So the jury may still be out.  Food for thought, though, even for those of us who primarily like to run with FE = 0. 

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I think it is fairly simple. Going by what Tom has posted here Minelab simply extended the Iron Bias range in F2 to go both higher and lower. Tom is equating Iron Bias 0 with the F2 setting of 4 and Iron Bias of 9 with F2 setting of 6. This means four settings below Iron Bias 0 and three settings above Iron Bias 9. As Clive has noted it means a faster ramp up in the middle range but Tom also indicates the lower end is not linear and so less "ramp down" on the new low end.

Higher settings mean more aggressive rejection of bottle caps but there is never a free lunch, so more possibility of causing non-ferrous to react as ferrous, more possibility of masking. On the low end, for nugget detecting in particular, less chance of small non-ferrous reading as ferrous in mineralized ground, but also more chance of ferrous reading as non-ferrous. Stuff like this almost always involves a trade of some sort.

Note that the original Iron Bias settings allow better fine tuning in what is now the "mid-range".

minelab-equinox-800-iron-bias-fe-vs-new-f2-settings.jpg

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Steve, 

The relationship between FE and F2 is fairly simple based on the above representation (thanks for that diagram), but I was surprised to find that what this is really saying is that some sort of iron bias filtering is ALWAYS applied in multi IQ.  I always had the mistaken impression that FE=0 meant the iron bias filter was "off".  I guess the only time the iron bias filter is turned off is in single frequency when the multi frequency bias curve cannot be calclulated.

So F2 =0 vs. FE=0 for maximum unmasking or for "more" all metal in Multi, I suppose   Glad ML is giving us choices, but they could do a little better in the explaining department.  Folks should not have to dig deep into DP or Tom's forum to figure this stuff out and the new mods to the user guide, especially with respect to the 600 and setting the 800 F2 defaults to 6 across the board are inconsistent with the above and/or are actually confusing.  I suppose, most folks fly by the seat of their pants via real world experience and tweak their settings based off what works for them rather than what the book says, but at least something like the above diagram in the book would help.

In any event, I'll take it and glad they are still refining the firmware on Equinox nearly two years in.

The other thing this shows is that with Multi IQ, ML is starting the "blur" the line between iron discrimination and notch as disc works in conjunction with Iron Bias to provide some sophisticated iron filtering.  It is like stacking or chaining filters together in photoshop or video editing.  And it is clear that Iron Bias is a "pre-filter" to discrimination in the Equinox.  May be a harbinger for a future Multi IQ detector with some sophisticated discrimination patterning like the FBS2 detectors.  I would look forward to that detector release if it is coming in the next couple of years.

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The line between ferrous and non-ferrous is blurred and every detector, simply by picking the point where they decide ferrous and non-ferrous splits, is applying a form of pre-set iron bias. In general, just for example, Fisher detectors are more biased against ferrous, and Nokta/Makro detectors less biased against ferrous. Newbies in particular hate digging ferrous so machines aimed at them have a high ferrous bias. The situation here is similar and the trade is always the same. If a detector is set to allow you to dig more ferrous you will uncover hidden non-ferrous targets. Or if you try to suppress all ferrous readings, some non-ferrous gets lost in the process. It’s true of all detectors that employ some form of ferrous identification. So the bottom line is yes, the Equinox has to have had some chosen amount of iron bias applied even at a so-called 0 setting, otherwise you are in a pure all metal mode.

Put another way, the only way a detector can detect all possible targets is a pure all metal machine without ground balance. No filters at all. Simply adding ground balance causes targets to be lost. Adding any discrimination causes more targets to be lost. The filters are imperfect due to the near infinite overlap between ferrous, non-ferrous, and ground readings.

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/506-adjustable-tone-break/?do=findComment&comment=3852

 

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My experience today running the new firmware was not what I expected.. It was a short hunt and I didn’t do any settings to settings comparison.. Just hunted as usual but with the new FE-2 settings.

Started in FE-2 2 but quickly dropped to F-2 -0 when I realized how well my Nox was running with the new settings..

Falsing seemed much easier to understand audibly and the Detector seemed to be able to analyze targets much faster and better,  making dig decisions easier.

two of the coins I found, (one Wheat and one V)were with iron and the detector locked on with a tight ID in both cases once they were isolated..

so far I’m happy

 Bryan

 



 

 
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I have been out every day since the update came.  I've watched a few of the videos where it shows the iron ring being ignored with settings.  That impressed me.

My 'results' of FE/FE2 adjusting amount to 'no change' in audio when it comes to bobby pins, iron screws, iron coins, paper clips or just about anything else including bottle caps.  I hear all that stuff if I'm in all metal in dry and wet sand.  I adjusted today with FE at 0 and FE2 at 1-9.  I've had FE2 at 0 and FE and 1-9.  Yesterday I used the 11 inch coil and today the 15 inch coil.  I like to dig 95% of my targets on the beach.  I'm surprised by what I find up to 10% of the time.  It is not what I expect.

The thing I like about the update and I noticed it the first night I used it is that the targets sound better.  That includes cheap rings and corroded pennies.

This afternoon I found 4 rings (top 4) and one 13g silver chain with the 15 inch coil. (I really like chains now more than rings!)  I did have to dig some falsing holes with the 15 and sometimes a coin will completely disappear.  It is why I call the 15 a finicky coil.  Most of the targets are the result of some wave energy finally coming with some wind to push these targets into an area where I detect.

The 4 rings at the bottom were found with the 11' coil in the same general beach.  On that hunt I also found many more coins.  The total time for the two hunts is about 6 hours.  I'll go back in the morning.

 

IMG_20190929_212054.jpg

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