GPZ GPS Security

[Steve Herschbach]

I am writing a series of tips and "how to" blogs on the zed GPS system. Sure it can be improved, but it is actually something I am finding it to be useful. There is something to be said for it being up front and in my face at all times that makes its use compelling. I like it.

[Norvic]

Certainly useful, and hopefully it will become a feature on all gold detectors, I think the biggest determent to its use is that to access data you have to go through Xchange2 and Google Earth through Minelabs site. Whilst I doubt it`s being used to access our "secrets", I`m not sure so I leave it off, plus for other reasons posted in this thread. Might be paranoid of me but I have on this forum and others inquired of use from serious prospectors and received no replies. Touchy subject it appears.

 

Is their any prospectors who feel as I do on this?

 

Interesting on this exact subject, just had a post posted today I posted on the 8/6/15 on MLO 4M. Nearly a month Lost in Space

 

Looking forward to your How To blog. The more use this feature the more market influence to get it up to speed and on all gold detectors. Give it a shot CTX & GPZ users, tis a powerful useful function.

[Steve Herschbach]

Minelab has stated multiple times that they are not interested in and do not access the data. It remains either on the GPZ or on the computer you use. Some people simply choose not to believe that. I have decided therefor to not spend much time trying to change paranoid minds but I do have a few good ideas for those that are. But again, that will be another series of posts soon.

[Norvic]

That`s a bit paranoid of you Steve.

Minelabs not the problem, they get hacked into we know that, but all that aside why not do as Garmin, Magellan, Lowrance etc etc and have the GPZ GPS export and import GPX file format which is a standard? Then the prospector can do as he wishes with his data, it is his data not Minelabs.

[Steve Herschbach]

I 100% agree Norvic and I am certainly passing my thoughts on those issues to the powers that be. There is a lot that could be done differently with the GPZ. Not only could it be done by Minelab, but by anyone with basic programming skills. Regardless of all that though, my goal is to work with what is and to try and help those who also interested in using what is.

As far as security goes my understanding is the location data is not passed to Minelab and there is nothing on their server to hack in that regard. The GPZ Instruction Manual includes the following privacy declaration by Minelab (at page 35):

To protect the privacy of your GPS and GeoStore data:

• GPS is ‘Off by default.

• GPS and GeoStore data is only ever stored locally on your detector and locally on your PC (if transferred using XChange 2).

• The detector does NOT transmit GPS or GeoStore data wirelessly.

• GPS and GeoStore data is NOT transmitted to Minelab from your detector or PC.

• Your data is NOT accessible by others via the internet and NOT stored online (cloud storage).

[Norvic]

Yes got all that, however in some cases we are talking about a fair amount of data worth a lot to us. As we know with banks, credit cards etc with their security they are still hacked. Using any site has risks in this respect, and it doesn`t matter what assurances are given, it is just not worth the risks, thus for me I require no internet connections when working with my data. I would use the GPS on the GPZ all the time if I didn`t have to go online, as you have stated that screen there right in front of you showing your track is brilliant. Once that data is stored on your PC and you go online whether to Minelabs site or any other it is at risk. In particular Minelabs because that is where we have to go to access the GPZs data, it would be like a magnet to those who have the ability to hack and seek this kind of data by getting to our PCs, different scale to the banks but still a concern. Google Earth receives that data from the GPZ going through Xchange, that is a weak link, I feel also could have security problems.

 

I turn my smart phone off long before it is in mobile reception for this reason, ensuring I have all such data moved onto PC if I require a mobile conx. I joke about being paranoid about this but in reality it is security of data I seek. 

 

My take of course, and I certainly do not wish to put prospectors off using the GPS on the GPZ, because it is a powerful tool that complements the detector, such a powerful tool I rate it right up there with the detector in importance, I am with you completely in your quest to share your findings on the importance of GPS data to prospectors.

I`d love to know why Minelab went this way with the GPS rather than adopt the standard most GPS manufacturers use. I suspect it is to do with security of their machine, an attempt to stop them being copied, but than why did they use open source software? Before anyone suggests I should contact Minelab, I did twice back in February & March, no reply. Hopefully they are working on this and will address or perhaps I`m the only one who feels this way but I doubt it.

 

I apologise for my rant if it offends, Steve, that is not my intent. I trust it is appropriate and I have not crossed a line I shouldn`t have. Gold is my passion as it is yours and a lot on this 4M.

[Steve Herschbach]

Norvic, I get it. I have built and administered large computer networks and done a fair amount of programming. I get it. My options are:

1. Tell people to just leave the damn thing turned off

2. Explain to people who regardless of the issues you have brought up how the system might be used to advantage

The problem as I see it is the very mention of the system always does just what it did here. It devolves into a discussion over security.

I understand your concerns. Can you also understand that I am using the system, and if you or anyone else wants to have a go at hacking Minelab to find out where I am detecting, that I just do not care? The number of people who prospect with detectors and who also happen to be world class hackers and who also have direct physical access to the areas I have access to is so vanishingly small as to be non-existent. If they did exist, with enough effort they might discover exactly where I am detecting. Frankly, that information would do them little good. Not everyone is detecting the kind of high value ground that demands the levels of security you are demanding.

[klunker]

  We'll see Steve.The knowledge you have shared has altered my opinions before but at this point I would rather have had the 7000 at a few hundred dollars less than have the built in GPS. If a stand alone GPS  had identical  features as the one built into the Z, I don't think it would be a competitive seller.

 There are hundreds of reasons that a prospector would mark a way point. I don't think I would label one "lots of great big nuggets found here". Or maybe I would. That might result in a very sore footed Chinese hacker with a bad case of Poison Oak.

[Norvic]

Agree bugger all hackers would be inclined to go through Minelab to get to prospectors computers, better to go through a bank to get to those user PCs. Crims are lazy people why would they want to know where gold is, lots of digging and hard yakka involved. Through a bank just lovely dollars. I also understand you are not concerned about your data, wheras I am about some of mine, I do detect high value ground as I have posted in Maybe An Amazing Find, and will illustrate what I`m on about here with a few photos of what the GPZ scored when I revisited that site, not yet but, got a lot of work to do there, because the GPZ has truly shown it is 40% plus better, but maybe not better than the 7005.

 

 Problem simply solved for me, I don`t use the GPS on the GPZ. But I`d love too because I know how powerful that feature is. So I use GPSs that I don`t have to go online to access my data, but I do use GE which is a powerful resource, but I don`t plot my tracks on it as Xchange does.

 

So I ask Minelab to do with their GPS as other manufacturers have, a standard such as the GPX file format. That data is the prospectors property. Simple I don`t ask Minelab to set up bank like security. I do not believe I am the Lone Ranger here, to the contrary I`m just an old meat ant, there are 100s of such OZies that do not want to share with others, I think the OZ gold scene is much different than the US scene, I presume that from this 4M and posts here. eg It seems a lot of nugget producing country in the US because of your road network is much more accessible than we have over here. We wreck 4WDs accessing ours as I have posted.

 

Thank you Steve for moving this to a new thread, for giving me the opportunity to explain and for understanding what I`m on about. I understand what your on about and fully support your promotion of the GPZs GPS to those who don`t have my concerns.

 

Give it a shot Klunker, I believe the GPS only added cents to the price of the GPZ, R & D added the other $10000

[Steve Herschbach]

I absolutely share your concerns and want Minelab to improve the system, most importantly by offering a straight forward export function. The system should work for EVERYONE not just those who are not as worried about the security issue. From a functionality aspect I would much prefer to export to my already existing Garmin database/software.

It should be easy and I expect it will happen at some point. So I thank everyone for reinforcing the need for changes in the system.

But I am still going to just ignore all that and try and help those who are interested with a few tricks I have learned. I might even have a surprise or two for those who do have security issues. The system has functionality that does not have security risks.