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I`ve change my wish list. 12'' round and as JP suggested 17 or 18" round.

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I am perfectly happy with the 14"ML coil and its ability to find small and large gold appears well balanced with the underlying ZVT configuration. I have yet to see evidence that under high performance conditions (HY/normal/smoothing off) the X-coil would find what the 14"ML doesn't. Regarding round coil, not sure if it would handle difficult ground that well as the DD, especially when running the machine hot. And If I need to go small I use my SDC, which is sufficient because tight areas are mostly shallow anyhow. Regarding weight, I actually find the GPZ easier to handle than the SDC over a longer period of time, probably because it is better balanced.

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Hi Gold Catcher, while I certainly agree that the 14 inch coil for the GPZ is a great coil, my difficulty with MineLab's decision to not make a smaller coil for it, thus leaving anyone who needs one to buy something like an SDC, is because it was a disingenuous misrepresentation of what was in the GPZ's future. They alluded to a smaller coil becoming available early on in their advertising. The fact that many owners hoped for a smaller coil has been sharply highlighted by the flood of x-coil purchases in spite of having to void the ML warrantee in order to use one. 

Good hunting to you and happy Holidays

Edited by flakmagnet
clarity
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Gotta agree with Flak.  After spending $7 -10 grand on a detector, we really should not have to fork out another $3800 to have a small coil option.

 

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8 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

I have yet to see evidence that under high performance conditions (HY/normal/smoothing off) the X-coil would find what the 14"ML doesn't.

Hi there Gold Catcher. What do you base your above statement on. Is it from your own personal experience running those high performance conditions/settings with both the ML 14" coil & an X coil of a similar size?

Due to my insanely mild ground conditions here In New Zealand I only detect in High Yield/ Normal, (our gold is of small size) Smoothing off & full max sensitivity at 20. Have done for a long time now. The first X coil I used was the 15 x 14, being an inch bigger than the ML 14 inch coil. I know for a fact that it found quite a bit more gold off old haunts that the ML 14" missed. Both in depth & smaller gold close to the surface. Going down size to the 10" X coil I got more gold again off the same grounds that both the ML 14" & the 15 x 14 inch X coil didn't get. It was open ground too, so it wasnt that the bigger coils couldn't get close to the ground. I am currently using the 10" X coil in places that the ML 14 & 15 x 14" X coil can't get into due to there size. This is paying off handsomely to. Not so much in bigger gold but numbers of smaller gold. Here is an example, & this is from an area I have done to death many times with all my detectors & coil combinations over the years. Including the Zed with ML 14" coil. It was open ground too so it wasnt that the larger coils couldn't get down on the ground.

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And these from another area that had stopped producing for me, until along came the 10" X coil.

20190428_163056.thumb.jpg.b434181ca0799232bdf66af89f5836c8.jpg

 

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 The other weekend I took the 12" X coil for a spin over an area I have thrashed for years with my GP 3000, 4500 & Zed with ML 14" coil & the 10" X coil. The 12" X coil being spiral wound as opposed to the 10" X coil being bundle wound, I was told by the manufacturer should be more sensitive than the 10". I thought the 10" was hot enough but that the 12" should get more depth & with the added better sensitivity, well it might get gold the 10" didn't. And it did.

20191208_113804.thumb.jpg.01de35f6e710f2ac64640d7173888d07.jpg

So I can tell you for a fact that for me in my detecting conditions the evidence is there under high performance conditions that the X coils definitely do find gold that the ML 14" didnt/doesnt. To the point that I have never used the ML 14" again.

I agree that the 2300 is not a comfortable detector to swing for a whole day, even a few hours. Definitely needs a bungy set up. Not a detector I am very fond of. 

Good luck out there

JW 🤠     

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2 hours ago, flakmagnet said:

My difficulty with MineLab's decision to not make a smaller coil for it thus leaving anyone who needs one to buy something like an SDC was a  disingenuous misrepresentation of what was in the GPZ's future. The fact that many owners hoped for a smaller coil

Even more disappointing when Minelab made mention that they would make a smaller coil, but it never eventuated. :ohmy: I wonder how many people bought a Zed with the smaller coil option tipping them over the edge to take the plunge & fork out those Dollars? :unsure:

JW

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When I got my first detector it came with a 7" and a option for a 10" at the time they were made for a coin size target. The makers would of tested coil sizes that gave the best results. ML came with a 11" coil standard if you use the same area ratio (double going from 7 to 10) then the next size up is 14" and then 20" then 28" (28.28")and if you go smaller 8" (7.78") then 5.5" Note. This is for round coils if elliptical then I would use the smaller width for the size of the coil. For a ratio of target area (not weight) to coil area will give a ratio of depth to the radius of the coil for signal that the detector to pick up. This means that a 14" coil detecting a set signal on a 1" x 1" square target is a fixed multiple of the radius (7") let say 1.5 then the depth is 10.5". If you do this with a 11" coil (half the area of the 14")on a on a 1" x 1/2" square target then it depth would be 8 1/4" (5.5" x 1.5). What does this mean to me is .... Going from 11"(standard) coil to a 14" will only give you a 20% increase in depth for a target twice as big (Area).  The volume of a nugget is proportional to it weight but area exposed to the coil is not linear to it weight and the ratio of area to weight gets a lot less as the nugget get bigger. Now to get back on track I would want a coil for a ML detector that is 8" by 11"......11" by 14"........ 14" by 20" Eliptical the next size would be too heavy. I quess I better wait for the Xmas Cognac to wear off.😀

If you want a real explanation go to Geotech forum and see if you can follow their tests etc on coils particularly posts by Eric Foster.

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14 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

I am perfectly happy with the 14"ML coil and its ability to find small and large gold appears well balanced with the underlying ZVT configuration. I have yet to see evidence that under high performance conditions (HY/normal/smoothing off) the X-coil would find what the 14"ML doesn't. Regarding round coil, not sure if it would handle difficult ground that well as the DD, especially when running the machine hot. And If I need to go small I use my SDC, which is sufficient because tight areas are mostly shallow anyhow. Regarding weight, I actually find the GPZ easier to handle than the SDC over a longer period of time, probably because it is better balanced.

Hi Gold Catcher,

I just got back from a trip to a goldfield here in Australia yesterday that has been hammered to death for the last 40 years. Especialy after the discovery of a largish size nugget found there many years ago.

I tried all of my zed coils on this ground but only one produced gold. Before i say which one i was able to crank the zed up to levels not previously possable at other locations due to the nature of the ground (tertiary deposit) I found high yeild/difficult with smoothing off and the sensativity at 20 was quite workable. Getting a bit braver i was curious if i could detect if i switched it over to normal and still have the sensativity at 20. Trying this i could.

Over the course of two days i found the 14 found pretty much nothing which i was half expecting as im sure theres been many zeds cover this ground over almost 5 years. My 20" X-coil (same settings except using general instead of high yield also found zip. No surprise there either as im sure the people that bulldozed/detected this spot picked up anything of size long ago.

Finally it was x-coil 10" time. 5 minutes in and my first bit at 0.09gms. Quite deep also for a small bit. Dont think a sdc2300 would have any chance at that depth and too small for the gpz14 to hear it at that depth. I did manage to get small fly bits with the gpz14 on some mulluck heaps at another location so im quite aware of the 14's ability. 

Spending some time there small bits up to 0.95 grams were coming out left and center, it was like a new gold field. I must admit i did end up going back to highyeild/difficult, 20 sensativity and smoothing off as the trade off from digging gold verses hot rocks was too much. I only had limited time before returning home so stuck with what was working best. 

So to sum up from my testing the small coil does out preform the 14" (edited - on tiny gold) purley because of its size. and that is using like for like settings for both coils.

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2 hours ago, Jin said:

Finally it was x-coil 10" time. 5 minutes in and my first bit at 0.09gms. Quite deep also for a small bit. Dont think a sdc2300 would have any chance at that depth and too small for the gpz14 to hear it at that depth

Like you Jin and KiwiJW, I too found the X coils recovered more in flogged out ML14 & ML19 ground, my X coils 15, 12 and 10" and I suspect so will my new X10x15coil once I`ve tried it. This is on both quiet ground and extremely variable noisy ground. I`ve also found I can use these X coils quiet comfortably in Manual ground balance on this extremely variable hot ground something the ML19 could achieve as well but not the ML14 at least not comfortably unless in Bogenes. My X coils are all the production models not the earlier test/beta models, of which because I have not used I cannot comment on, and touch wood my X coils have so far performed as Top coils as good as all top coils I`ve used in my 40 plus years serious detecting throughout Australian goldfields. The 10" can be touch sensitive if the Z is cranked up ie. Steves Insane Settings, but this is no problem if used with good slow coil control. I`ve developed a  not-serious but humorous saying "If it`s not an X coil it`s a lemon"

The use of manual ground balance requires some use of the QT button as the ground varies, with a few up & down pumps as we use with the VLFs and PIs. Manual ground balance used as I do I have found produces more depth in both extremely variable hot ground and quiet ground with all the Z coils either ML or X. It is the ground mode I use when searching patches preferring Semi-Auto when patch hunting. Usually I use general/normal/all smoothing off, sens20 except in the extremely variable hot ground where I will switch to HY/Difficult still no smoothing and sens at what I can work comfortably.

Jin how would you describe the ground types that you detect in.

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Thanks guys for your feedback, and very nice finds kiwijw. I had the 10" coil for a couple of days and I found that after ferrite GB (semi-auto) the coil appeared a bit noisier than the 14 "ML, up to a point where I had to reduce sensitivity by a few clicks (14>11). Now, I do admit that by no means I have done a through head to head comparison under various ground conditions so I am certainly not an expert like many of you guys. Also, I don't run my machine at 20 as I try to keep some sanity, and also because it can mask deep faint targets in my experience. But overall it does appear that, at least for the highly mineralized grounds that I was on, the 14" ML gave a more balanced performance under strict coil control conditions and was more forgiving in keeping the machine stable at higher gain. The attached pic shows the area I was at, with insane amounts of iron at contact zones and rapidly changing ground conditions. Looking forward to see what ML will do for 2020. As many of you have said, I do see the point that having more coil options would be beneficial, as long as the machine as a whole remains well engineered  and balanced  to maximize the underlying ZVT. I sometimes compare this with after market tuning of cars. It can enhance performance, but it may or may not be in sync with the rest of the engineering. I might be naive here :)

12-07-2019 El Paso Mountains.JPG

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