Jump to content

Recommended Posts


I think I can somewhat explain in a way the reason the areas in NZ at least haven't been thoroughly hunted with VLF's like you're describing Jason and in one word it is Pellets.  I too think these VLF's can do a great job of the tiny stuff in clean ground, add these pellets to the equation and things change.

These areas are absolutely riddled with pellets because I think of damn Rabbits which are an introduced pest here.  You'll hear me talking about pellets all the time in my posts.  I can't take even one swing with a VLF and not hit a pellet or two.  For some reason which is beyond my melon and something I've questioned before is why the GPZ hits on gold and ignores a significant number of these pellets even when the gold is sometimes of a similar weight as the pellets.   I think it's because often the gold isn't a little ball and is flattened out or irregular shapes.  I obviously don't know and it's well above my brain capacity why this is the case.  

I can get over a hundred with a VLF EASILY before I tire out and just end up moving them around rather than digging them.   The rule is if it moves in a scrape or two with the pick move on or you'll be there all day sorting out pellets.

So you're right, the areas here haven't been done well with VLF's, that's a fact.  I am patient, but not that patient 🙂

It's why in a lot of places I use a GPX instead of anything else as it isn't sensitive enough to get a bulk of the pellets.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I've questioned before is why the GPZ hits on gold and ignores a significant number of these pellets even when the gold is sometimes of a similar weight as the pellets.   I think it's because often the gold isn't a little ball and is flattened out or irregular shapes.  I obviously don't know and it's well above my brain capacity why this is the case.  

Simon, have you forgotten the handful of pellets I got with the Zed & the 12" X coil the last time we went out?

JW 🤠

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jasong

I think you are correct regarding hunting the tiny bits in Oz. During my three trips

( 2000, 2003 and2010) I don’t think anyone used any detector except Minelab PI’s.

Most of the time a 1/4 grammer was considered small. I think the GPZ changed that...just my opinion.

fred

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, fredmason said:

( 2000, 2003 and2010) I don’t think anyone used any detector except Minelab PI’s.

My trips with Doug Stone to WA & NT were in 98/99 and then I can`t recall that there was anything but Minelab PIs on those trips, Doug had a few Coiltek coils they`d given him to test, which we had the use of, new kids on the block so to speak. I suspect that was the time when aftermarket coils were making their presence known, the controversy of coil choices, which lead to Coiltek or NF becoming the "coil standard". Not being over that way on tours since  I don`t know if the GPZ has changed that.

 

2 hours ago, Jin said:

Norvic, the ground changes so much now as i go to many diferent areas with the caravan. On my last trip, i detected both reasonably quiet ground as well as ground that was dark purple/black ironstone and pretty noisey according to others. - Cheers Rick

Thanks for your reply Rick, yeh sharemarket investing interest certainly can cut into gold time, but for me gold ended up getting me back, the physical hunt written into our DNA I think. Have fun. Vic

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jin said:

 My conclusion (or what works for me) is that the noiser machine (much higher gain) wins hands down. I agree it is a lot more tiresome on the brain but not as tiresome as coming home with no gold.

For me, the noisier my machine runs the more I seem to be able to hear subtler signals. It seems weird even to me but it works. I want to be clear that I am only saying what works for me. I know lots of people who do not like a noisy machine and they do very well with a quiet tuning. It may be that there is no "best" way to run these machines since we are all "wired" differently.

Jasong thank you for your clear account of your experimentation with your x-coils. In addition, your thinking about what may be forthcoming from ML sounds interesting and possible. It will be fun to see what comes of their silence. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/18/2019 at 5:51 AM, Jin said:

Hi Guys, sorry i dont post more often but spend most hours dealing with the share market theses days. After 5 odd years being totaly obsesed with detecting my focus has changed some what now. I now only detect when we take the van away to give me something to do. (usually every 6 - 8  weeks)

Norvic, the ground changes so much now as i go to many diferent areas with the caravan. On my last trip, i detected both reasonably quiet ground as well as ground that was dark purple/black ironstone and pretty noisey according to others. - Cheers Rick

Phunt, Yes the 20" was suposed to be my dream coil but you know sometimes we think bigger is better. The reality is the 20" allthough great for covering ground as a patch hunting coil i think i prefer just the original gpz14. Ive got a few spots i would like to try it on that i know some bigger bits at depth were found but havnt got there yet. So at this point id have to say the 10" is my dream coil. It makes the zed feel so light and easy to monuvour. Had to laugh the other day, I was detecting this spot and thought i bet the gpz14 wouldnt get in between these two trees close together so stuck the 10" in there. I heard a quiet target, and out poped a 0.30gm bit of gold. Tried it in another spot but it was only a bulldozer shard. - Cheers Rick

Quite a few of my smaller bits on other occasions with the 10" were found using highyield/difficult, smoothing off and sensativity at 3 working old mullock heaps that have seen a lot of action. The zed was very quiet and these little bits were only a slight change in the threshold. I found that this style of detecting is not really my style though and my patence gets tested to much after an hour or so and i tend to start swinging faster which defets the purpose..  

I must admit this coil wont balance out the ferite properly so i dont even bother using the ferite anymore with the x-coils. I always use auto ground balance also. Although pretty concerned in the early days about ferite/x  ground noise problem ive come to believe after going to many places thats its a waste of time worring about it. Ive read EVERY post on EVERY forum by the experts on how to use the zed and then gone out there and tested all these theories myself on gold  ive placed in the ground as well as targets that i think will be gold before digging them out.  My conclusion (or what works for me) is that the noiser machine (much higher gain) wins hands down. I agree it is a lot more tiresome on the brain but not as tiresome as coming home with no gold.

Hi Jin, Great common sense post & Iike others of us out there just doing our thing with the X coils would share all of what you have observed & mentioned that comes from having a bit of time under our belts using X coils & comparing to what we had & the conclusions we have now come to. Despite what, like you said, the experts say about using the Zed, we are all different & handle things in our own way & what seems & does work for us individulay. Starting with our ground conditions & taking it from there.

How's the share market doing for you?

Have a great Xmas.

Good luck out there

JW 🤠 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, kiwijw said:

Simon, have you forgotten the handful of pellets I got with the Zed & the 12" X coil the last time we went out?

JW 🤠

I haven't.. I'd rather a handful than a pocket full 🙂 But yes that 12" was more sensitive to pellets than I expected, but no match for a Gold Monster or something 🙂

So I guess we've got about as far as we can go with Dream Size coils so the list is:

JP = Smallest coil possible would be well received, 12” round (spiral would be great), a 16 to 17” elliptical, 17 to 18” round
Madtuna = 18" Round
Norvic = 22" Round
Mitchel = Small Elliptical
Lunk = Small, Medium and Large, both in Elliptical and Round
Fred = 12" Elliptical, 17" Elliptical
WesD = Small Elliptical (8x12" waterproof)
Beatup = 8x12" 9x14", 10" and 12" Round
Phoenix: 12" Round, 17" or 18" Round
Gold Hound 17" Round and 22" Round
afreakofnature: Smallest Waterproof possible
kiwijw: Smallest Elliptical possible
SteveH: 8" Round or smaller, 8"x10" Elliptical
JasonG: 17x10
Jin: 10"

For me It's very similar to JP, I'd want the smallest possible in elliptical, 12" Round Spiral wound, and 17" Elliptical.  I guess I'd have to have the 10" too as I've seen how well that size works here with JW. 🙂

People questioned the 12" being so close to the standard 14", the reason I'd want a 12" is because you can have spiral windings on it.  That makes it very sensitive like a 10" with that extra depth and ground coverage of a 12"

Thanks to everyone who contributed and thanks for keeping the thread in good order. I  appreciate it.

 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your using the GPZ in auto mode then the GB is actively trying to track X and G at the same time, in the case of the X coils that do not X balance properly the G balance will go a long way to help compensate for the inaccuracy in the X signal which is a good thing especially in the case of the 10” X. As is evidenced by jasong its the only option because the most sensitive mode to X signal on the GPZ is High Yield Normal, however due to that sensitivity the X signal is also more readily tracked by the G tracking. 

I don’t consider myself an ‘Xpert’ (pun intended😂), the way i run my machine is not an opinion its based around knowledge imparted to my by the designer of the detector. Running the GPZ noisy as possible is fine, I prefer moderation because in my experience the edge of detection target signals, especially the larger ones tend not to benefit from increases in Sensitivity levels but instead stability and correct tuning of the X and GB.

Facts are if the detector is making a noise on the X signal that resultant noise is going to set up shop and go into competition with target signals a little like Nugget Finder getting into the GPZ coil market.😅 If the detector is making a noise on X its not the end of the earth because X is variable and thankfully blends in with regular ground noise especially for you crazy ‘Running things like Steve’ operators who like to crank things up a bit. At the end of the day a 10” coil is not really being used for super deep edge of detection subtle target signals anyway, and even then the difference between an obvious signal and a subtle signal is measured in mm not inches.

JP

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • By mn90403
      Today I took a short beach swing and didn't find much but it was good to just get out in a sea breeze if you know what I mean.  I used the Equinox 800.  About midway through my 2+ hours I checked my settings and noticed I had recovery speed on 5.  I changed it to 6 and then the thought came to my mind, "What would I do or could I do with the Zed to immulate changing the recovery speed?"
      I've used the 800 in many different settings so far but mostly the beach.  I've seen the videos of nails next to good targets.
      How do YOU tease the good targets out of trash like the 800?
    • By ysabxe
      If you don't want to lose depth and get perfect discrimination in any soil you need custom coil. Here some tests
      Скачать видео Скачать видео  
    • By phrunt
      JW contacted me in the morning saying he's got the day off work so if I wanted to go for a detect jump in my car and head on over to his place.  This is always a hell yes from me, the world would have to be ending to stop me.... oh uhm... whoops 🙂 maybe more than the world ending.
      We were going back to the exact same spot we were at the previous mission so figured I'd either use the 15x10" X-coil or the 10" X-coil, but because the area is very rocky I went with the 10", you need as small of a coil as possible for this terrain.

      The 10" can get into some pretty tight spaces.  Gold here would be missed with any bigger of a coil.
      JW noticed our Davsgold picks looked a little different, this is odd as we both have the same pick so we compared them

      The years of wear on JW's pick is pretty evident, his pick has gone through hell smashing up schist for years 🙂 He needs to give it a sharpen, the sharp point on mine is very handy. 
      I've also upgraded the magnet I had on my pick, it's been excellent.  I drilled out a 30mm deep by 20mm round hole in my pick and dropped the strongest magnet I could buy into it with the same dimensions.   Now not only is the base of my pick magnetic, the sides are too, it sucks up ferrous junk like mad.  I'm very happy with it.


      I can move the black sand around on it 🙂
      JW was back detecting his highly productive cliff edge armed with his hammer and screwdriver, so I figured I'd go back and check around where I was the other day.
      It wasn't long and I had a very faint signal, a few scrapes and the signal improved.  The bedrock in this spot is about 4 to 9 inches down.  It turned out to be quite a nice bit of gold down in the bedrock that required breaking up some bedrock to get to it.  For the first time I managed to record a good part of the find on video as I was so confident it was going to be gold.  I've wanted to capture a find on video for a long time.
      Here is a photo of the spot I got it, it was actually quite deep, and the gold was on edge, it's a very skinny bit.

      My biggest of the day.
      I spent the next hour or so checking the area slowly.  Plenty of pellets but nothing else.
      I moved back down towards the little gully JW was detecting and on the path we bike in I had a signal, I'd done this path bit the other day with the Nox, I'd spent an hour or two on this small area with it but I missed this piece, maybe just too deep for the Nox.

      Down through the gravels to the bedrock again.

      Almost like a little ball 🙂  This round gold is common in this spot, JW's been getting a lot of it.
      I then realized I forgot to balance to my ferrite ring, seeing I'd gone from the 12" to the 10" X-coil I thought I may as well do it.
      Again I don't know if I am balanced to it being new to the GPZ but I did the procedure and the noise of the ring all but disappeared after a couple of sweeps over it.
      The day was getting pretty exciting, I was hoping for a 3rd but for the next few hours I got nothing but pellets... I had a break and drink and watched JW for a while, I usually learn a few things doing this and I was able to see his coil control is far better than mine, he drives that thing around keeping it so close to the ground hugging the rocks while checking the bedrock cracks.

      The cracks in the bedrock like in this photo can contain gold, but you have to check the entire rock as the gold has proven it can be anywhere in the rock in healed over cracks.
      As the day was coming to an end I went over to a spot that chased JW away with the abundance of pellets there, they were everywhere!!!!
      It paid off though, my final nugget for the day

      This is up on a bedrock ledge, the ground is 10 to 15 feet below where this little ledge is

      and down deep in the gravels was a bit of gold........ and about 8 pellets 🙂

      The gold had a louder and more distinct signal than the pellets.  Another ball type bit.
      And now the weigh in.....
      My junk

      Not as bad as last time, I'd already done a lot of the cleaning of the area 😉


      Not too bad 🙂 I haven't had three in a while.  Almost worth celebrating with a beer at the pub

    • By phrunt
      Now that I've got your attention no JW didn't only get one bit of gold 🙂 He got many but that's his story.  I managed one bit.  I had to borrow his gold bottle as I forgot my own, I also forgot my harness which is not the best thing to do for someone with a sore back!
      A week or so ago we went for a detect at a spot on the E-bikes, JW did really well over at a rocky cliff area where gold was getting trapped like a sluice box in the schist.  I was detecting some bedrock nearby.  My back was terrible at the time due to an injury so I used my Equinox rather than my GPZ.  I mostly spent my day digging shot gun pellets but I did manage a bit of gold in a crack in the bedrock, I had only the week before been watching JW smashing gold out of bedrock so when I found this bit I was pretty confident it was gold when the target needed smashed out of bedrock and it was.

      You can see the thin layer of soil over the bedrock and minor cracks in the rock where I had to smash it out.

      The smashed up crack above in the coil in this photo and the little bit of gold.

      I forgot to weigh this one before throwing it in with my gold collection.  I wasn't going to bother posting about it as it was just one nugget.  That was it for me for the day.
      JW and I were discussing the virus pandemic yesterday morning as NZ has now locked down it's borders, anyone at all who wants to enter the country needs to go into quarantine for two weeks and he suggested we go for an afternoon detect.  I was keen for this as I felt my back was ready to use my GPZ again with the extra weight it has so I jumped in my car and went up to JW's house.  We decided we'd go back to the same spot as JW had unfinished business at his very productive little spot and I figured I'd go over the same area I was doing with the Equinox to see what I could get out of it.  I hadn't completely finished the area with the Nox as my back got too sore to continue that day.
      I'm still getting the hang of using my GPZ, I haven't had it long and haven't used it as much as I'd like due to my back injury.  It's very much a learning curve for me, it's different to using my GPX and QED.  For example I only really learnt yesterday the left and right of the coil are the hot spots, not the center like on my GPX with spiral coils as I was confused recovery targets they were never where I expected them to be 🙂
      After a bit of practice with it I've settled on my general settings of HY / Normal with gain of 20 and smoothings off, this seems comfortable enough for me to use in the spots I've tried so far.  Everything else is on defaults.   I did the ground balance over the ferrite at the start of the day seeing some people say it's necessary, I'm not convinced in my soils it will make a difference but it can't hurt so why not do it.  I guess this would be considered balanced to the ferrite? I have no idea, remember I am new the the GPZ but seeing it was setting it off loudly before balancing and afterwards it was like this I can only assume It's done.  I'm pretty happy with how the GPZ runs as I was very close to JW, about 60 foot I guess away from his GPZ and they don't seem to bother each other much.
      I could hear JW chipping away at his cliff edge and I had myself what appeared to be a good target in some bedrock (in the above video you'll also hear JW chipping away at the bedrock), I was confused trying to target where in the rock I needed to smash and couldn't locate where the target was, the rock was solid hard rock and hitting it with my pick wasn't doing much.
      I went over to JW and asked if he'd mind helping, he came over and we attempted to get the bit of gold out, I'd been at it for about 20 minutes already and with JW's assistance and another 15 or so minutes we had smashed it out, JW instructed me on following the lines in the schist to try smash it out in the layers, working my way from the edge to where the nugget is.  My Davsgold Gold Digger pick was copping a beating taking on this rock but I had no choice.

      My hand didn't enjoy it either, hitting the rock with the pick was hard work 🙂

      You can see here I'd been smashing out layers of it to try get to the spot with the gold.
      I was originally a bit confused with where the gold was, thinking it was in a big crack in the bedrock, but it turned out it wasn't in the crack but in the rock itself.

      That's the crack I cleaned out above, and the smashed out rock below trying to get to it.  A few more king hits with rock flying everywhere and the target was out, but it disappeared, we could not find it anywhere!!!! All that work and it was gone.
      We detected all around the area and the only thing we could find was an odd bit of magnetic metal in the rubble below the rock, at first we thought it was a bit off my pick but it was weird and one side smooth and shiny.  When I got home and put it under my phones microscope I found it's slightly magnetic, you can see the black sand and also a little bit of a metal substance stuck to it.

      Very weird, this likely came out of the rock as it wasn't there prior to breaking up the schist.  We assumed that was the target in the rock and JW went back to his spot to resume his gold recoveries 🙂
      I wasn't ready to give up and kept detecting around the area thinking maybe there was still a bit of gold that flung out of it and about 5 minutes later I had it! A little nugget was sitting on the surface.

      This sun baker had to be my nugget from the rock, it's VERY unlikely there would be a sun baker here.

      I continued detecting the area for the rest of the afternoon, I was digging a lot of junk, mostly shotgun pellets and little shards of metal and all the ferrous targets I'd left behind using the Nox with it's discrimination 🙂
      I had another target I was so sure was going to be gold, I was clearing away the surface soils and the target was down in the bedrock again....  I was so sure it was going to be gold seeing it was in the bedrock I took a video of the target.
      But no, after smashing out the bedrock the only thing I could find was a damn shot gun pellet that had made itself down into the crack in the bedrock!

      That damn little pellet was down in that crack!  I think it's a steel one too.

      I called it quits after that one and decided I'd go have a drink and snack and watch JW for a while and see what I could learn, at this point he'd come over to my spot as he was sick of chipping away at the rock in his area and the lucky bugger found two bits of gold in an area I'd been over with my Equinox the week before, I wasn't sure if I went over it with my GPZ but I am pretty sure I had not.  The target signals on his GPZ with 10" X-coil were very good, stood out like dogs nuts so there is no way I'd miss them.
      So my total for the afternoon

      A bucket load of junk, mostly pellets and little bits of metal

      And one nugget for 0.086 of a gram. I'll take it, I'm still continuing my pattern of not getting a skunk since getting the GPZ... Before getting the GPZ I regularly found no gold, since getting it I always find at least 1 piece every time I go out.
    • By Rivers rat
      Interesting reading if it works .....:
      Use Google translate for those not fluent in Russian I saw a similar post years back with Deus coils on GEOTECH it MAY be the reason why you can buy some electronic units only in Russia I am well tempted to build another nox for cheap....................
      http://foxmd.ru/index.php?route=product/category&path=77_92

      enjoy

      RR
    • By Steve Herschbach
      Someday I hope to wake up in a world where I can order the detector directly from the manufacture with the coil I want. Right now White's and Teknetics are selling factory direct. OK, so where is my advantage? It's the factory. Let me order the detector and coil I want and stick it in the box and ship it to me. I can understand dealers not wanting to open already boxed units but the factory should not care. Keep some units unboxed and waiting for my order and ship me what I want.
      It is only a matter of time before somebody gets gutsy enough to do this and more. When I sold Ski-Doo snowmobiles you used to get what you got. Now you can pre-order machines and have them shipped from the factory with all kinds of custom options. Like custom decal sets... another good idea that detector companies could steal. It would be a blast to have a website where I could go, pick a detector, have a couple rod and handle options to choose from (S rod, straight rod, tall man rods, fat handles and skinny handles), different color and/or decal options, and of course whatever coils I want. Build it and see it built online and then order and ship. If this means I wait a little longer or pay a few more bucks, that's fine.
      Want to see it in action? Go online here and build your own Ski-Doo. It gets real fun when you get to the accessory page and you can see your model change as you add and subtract options. 
      Where is the company that will break the mold and think out of the box when it comes not just to building detectors, but marketing and selling them in new and creative ways?
×
×
  • Create New...