Chase Goldman Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 hours ago, palzynski said: I am not sure that the cost difference between a Deus/Orx and a Vanquish/Simplex only comes from the electronics micropackaging. The Xps are designed and assembled in France while the Vanquish/Simplex are assembled in Asia. This may be an important part of the cost difference . For info at the moment in France the best price for an Orx is around 600e , there is only 200e difference with a Simplex . While the simplex is a good machine the Orx is far better to me in terms of ergonomy and electronics , I am not saying this because I am French … 😊 Only 200e?? That's 50% the cost of the lower priced "heavier" machine! The cost is indeed associated with putting the Deus/Orx electronics in the coil, full wireless, and the compact controller. All of these things are what make Deus/Orx light weight and also drive cost. 3 hours ago, palzynski said: However I am interested by the Vanquish 540 + 12inches coil because it is multifrequency , then it should be better than my Deus HF on deeply buried big coins You are right to praise your Orx. That is why that unless you need a salt beach machine which is where multi provides the greatest advantage, you can improve depth on deep coins on your Orx/Deus by simply purchasing an 11" x35 coil for less cost. The 11" round x35 coil will get slightly more depth than the 9x12" Vanquish elliptical (all things being equal) and the x35 coil will allow you to lower operating frequency to <4 khz maximizing depth on high conductive coins. Win-Win 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palzynski Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 My opinion is that health has no price . If 200$ more can prevent me to have back , arm or shoulder issues in the future, then it is a very good Investment for me . For example a friend of mine has been using a minelab Advantage with a quite heavy 11inches coil for several years and he finally got a kind of "tennis elbow" ( I am not sure of the exact words in English ... ) .At a moment he could even not prospect any more due to this arm pb . I suggested him to buy a Deus and since he uses the Deus the pb has disappeared ... I have many friends in the detection hobby and several have such kind health issues , because the swinging of a detector is not a symetric motion , especially when using heavy detectors , and when it is repeated thousands of times. Otherwise your advice concerning the 11inches deus coil running at 4khz is good . But using it I will loose a lot of sensitivity on small and very small targets, . Using a Vanquish V12 coil I should keep very good perfos on both big targets AND small targets, even with the big V12 coil. This is the reason why I have ordered a Vanquish 540 . Also the V12 vanquish coil is elliptical so it should perform better than the round deus 11inches coil in iron trashed areas. To be confirmed of course I have not yet received my Vanquish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB_Amateur Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Not unlike with other endeavors, individual detectorists have many preferences, and ordering those in importance, etc. is an individual choice. Weight, balance, quality of sound, detail of Target IDentification (TID), ease of adjustment, choice of coils, type of battery, country of origin,.... The list is much longer. You seem to have found a couple detectors (Orx & Deus) that best check the boxes for you. The fact that the Simplex doesn't shouldn't be a detriment to the choices of others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, palzynski said: My opinion is that health has no price . If 200$ more can prevent me to have back , arm or shoulder issues in the future, then it is a very good Investment for me . For example a friend of mine has been using a minelab Advantage with a quite heavy 11inches coil for several years and he finally got a kind of "tennis elbow" ( I am not sure of the exact words in English ... ) .At a moment he could even not prospect any more due to this arm pb . I suggested him to buy a Deus and since he uses the Deus the pb has disappeared ... I have many friends in the detection hobby and several have such kind health issues , because the swinging of a detector is not a symetric motion , especially when using heavy detectors , and when it is repeated thousands of times. I think you are missing my point completely. You complained about the weight of the Vanquish. I understand why you want the lightest machine. Since you have health issues, then you have the option to get the ORX for an easier swing. One of my best detecting buddies has said that the Deus has added 5 more years to their ability to go detecting because of arthritis issues. But it comes at a cost and that is NOT who ML is targeting with Vanquish and most other "value" machines are not going to push the weight envelope much further unless they are going to marry a coil with an actual cell phone (again, not necessarily cheap). The Vanquish is targeted to entry level detectorists (or savvy experienced detectorists who know a great value). ML doesn't care whether YOU would be willing to spend the extra money for reduced weight, it is obvious that experienced detectorists like you and me who own XP machines are willing to pay the price for the extra light machine. But most people would not and that is who ML is targeting. Let's take your ORX example, you say 200e extra is no big deal. It isn't to you, but that's not the point. Lets just say for the sake of argument that ML could deliver a Vanquish at the ORX weight class but it would raise the price an extra 200e (I bet it would actually raise it more than that but we'll just go with it) then that takes Vanquish completely out of the target demographic price wise and ML would LOSE a lot of sales. Most of the target demographic WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO PAY 200 additional for lighter machine. That's the point and that is why ML is not trying to push the weight down further because that just raises the price of the machine beyond the target price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, palzynski said: Otherwise your advice concerning the 11inches deus coil running at 4khz is good . But using it I will loose a lot of sensitivity on small and very small targets, . Using a Vanquish V12 coil I should keep very good perfos on both big targets AND small targets, even with the big V12 coil. This is the reason why I have ordered a Vanquish 540 . Also the V12 vanquish coil is elliptical so it should perform better than the round deus 11inches coil in iron trashed areas. To be confirmed of course I have not yet received my Vanquish. You originally said you wanted depth not sensitivity. If you wanted sensitivity the HF coil is fine, the V12 is not going to improve sensitivity for you because it has the same width as the 9" HF round and it is not going to go any deeper either. It's main advantage vs. the HF is just slightly improved swing coverage (remember V12 is a 9x12" elliptical so it has the slightly less sensitivity and and the same depth as your 9 HF) if you want more depth like you said in the first place you should go with the 11" X35. It is hard to keep up when you keep moving the goal. Elliptical shape does not really help in iron it just facilitates side to side swing in tight spaces with the 12 inch swing coverage. But all of those facts are a moot point since you placed your order. Vanquish is a good detector, you will likely enjoy it, but not really for any of the reasons you stated you wanted it for and it will be heavier but with an XP like stem design might not seem as heavy for you. Good luck and hope it leads to those elusive deep big coins for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palzynski Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 GB_amateur , I am not saying that the simplex is a bad machine , look my detailed test at https://www.metaux-detection.fr/nos-tests,fr,3,65.cfm ( sorry it is in French only ,and you will see I have graded it 14/20 ) . I am just saying that the Simplex main drawback is a weight /balance below the average . May be for some persons the weight is not an issue but for some others it is an important criteria so it is important for me to inform potential future users . In my tests I just trying to tell the truth, this for each machine whatever the brand . Actually it seems that people appreciate this , because these online tests are quite popular and often read over here. I know there are many tests tending to hide ( or not tell ) the drawbacks of the detectors , always giving a high grade for all the detectors . This is not my case I prefer to be frank and tell what I think , the good things and the things that could be improved , even if it sometimes generates discussions on forums ..😊. Btw you will also see in my tests that I have graded the Deus 18/20 , which is normal , in France and Europe the Deus is a best seller , because it is very well adapted to the European terrains , which are iron trashed ( more than in the US I think ) due to 2000 years of important human presence, also because it is very light and very reliable. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chase , re read my post , I am not complaining about the Vanquish weight , but about the Simplex . If you read my online test above ( perhaps Google can translate it in English ) , I explain that the Simplex below average balance mainly comes from the Simplex coil weight at 480g . An Equinox 11inches coil is 420g. A Deus 11inches coil is 410g , a Deus HF is 320g , so the Simplex coil weight is not the best , this is just a fact . The Vanquish V12 at 1,3kg is lighter than the Simplex at1,42kg , and I think that the Vanquish weight can be reduced to 1,26kg using lithium AA batteries instead of the Ni MH stock batteries . Also I think that the V12 coil will be lighter than the Simplex 11coil ., giving at the end a quite good balanced machine. This has to be confirmed as I have not yet the Vanquish. Otherwise , of course I understand that there is a need for detectors at 200 or 300e. When I have started in the hobby, it was in 1998 with a Tesoro Silver Sabre micro max, it was not a 1500$ machine … 😊 Btw fortunately I have no major health pbs , I just find that swinging a light machine is an important part of the pleasure when practicing this hobby. I will let you know, if you want , my opinion on the Vanquish 540 as soon as I receive it . Happy Hunting to all … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, palzynski said: I will let you know, if you want , my opinion on the Vanquish 540 as soon as I receive it . Yes, I would be very interested to know what you think as I am considering it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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