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Thanks, Paul, for a very informative post!  I have a couple questions, as usual.

42 minutes ago, Paul (CA) said:

The 12”x10” DD improved depth with all these models with the exception of 4-pin Lobo....

Does this mean you did not have 4-pin 12"x10" DD to put on the Lobo-ST?

 

43 minutes ago, Paul (CA) said:

...The Cortes was probably the best of the bunch and thats with using the 12”x10” DD coil....

 

45 minutes ago, Paul (CA) said:

The Deleon just couldn’t get rid of the falsing, even with the large DD Deleon can’t handle our soil with high sensitivity.

I don't know much about Tesoro models except what I've read here (and have been able to remember...) and from looking at an old (2014?) catalog.  I was under the impression, I guess at least partly from their looks, that the Cortes and DeLeon were similar.  Your results put a nix on that idea.  Reviewing the catalog's feature lists, I notice that the DeLeon's say "Preset Ground Balance" and the Cortes says "Preset or Manual Ground Balance."  Is that the big difference and the reason your difficult ground showed a huge difference in capability?

Not a complaint -- as always you go with what you have available -- but you've left me wondering how the other 4-pin ('delta') detectors (Tejon, Vaquero, Cibola) would have compared with your extensive lineup of 5-pin ('epsilon') models.

 

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Hello GB-Amateur,

The Lobo is an original model, with manual GB.  Unfortunately,  the stock elliptical coil and a smaller piglet coil are the only 4-pin coils I have. I’m sure a much bigger coil will enhance depth, but at present trying to not invest further in the hobby.  

I’ve forgotten so much especially with older technology, can’t remember if GB carriers over onto disc mode with Cortes or Deleon.    I feel, the reason the Deleon wasn’t doing well with the 12”x10” DD was probably due to discrimination mode not tuned with the larger DD coil. I like the Deleon, would prefer using a Deleon especially for it’s larger screen but for some reason in tougher soil conditions the Cortes fares a lot better. The Cortes impresses me,  gets good depth with the 12”x10” DD coil and very good coverage. In my soil,  the Tesoro Stock coils can’t penetrate very deep with any of my Tesoro lineup.  Which is my reasoning for using the 12”x10” DD, gains a good 1”-2” inches in poor soil.  Plus,  the DD coverage is great.

Many years ago,  probably at least a decade ago tried both the Tejon and Vaquero at this same particular site. They had very good depth out in clearer areas with low mineralization, even with stock coils.  But,  In poor soil they suffered with stability issues especially in areas with iron. 
 

I’d like to try a Vaquero again with a larger DD, I feel the DD will help. 

Hopefully,  get out there again this afternoon.  This round will use four different analog ID model’s, for now have my top end parked for a while and will enjoy using these older tech model’s.

Thank you for your interest,

HH, Paul

 

Deleon

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Paul,

The Lobo ST I had worked better with concentric coils and was hot with the gb negative.

Does the Lobo w/ gb work as well as Lobo ST w/ gb turned negative inside?

Rick

 

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6 hours ago, Rick N. MI said:

Paul,

The Lobo ST I had worked better with concentric coils and was hot with the gb negative.

Does the Lobo w/ gb work as well as Lobo ST w/ gb turned negative inside?

Rick

 

Hello Rick,

I never tried a Lobo ST,  only owned a couple of original lobo models with manual GB. I do run a little negative with most of my GB models, including the original lobo.

I’ve read that before,  Lobo ST runs hotter with concentric coils.  That’s probably the case in my area providing soil isn’t too mineralized, I may try and search for a used larger coil for my original Lobo. Really like the Original Lobo, if I can get another inch or two that would be great.

Thanks for bringing that up, encourages me to search for another coil for my Lobo.
 

Take care,

Paul

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22 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

 I was under the impression, I guess at least partly from their looks, that the Cortes and DeLeon were similar.  Your results put a nix on that idea.  Reviewing the catalog's feature lists, I notice that the DeLeon's say "Preset Ground Balance" and the Cortes says "Preset or Manual Ground Balance."  Is that the big difference and the reason your difficult ground showed a huge difference in capability?

I'm not Paul, but I am and have been a very avid Tesoro user since July of '83.  I have spent most of my life in the greater Portland Oregon metro area, but get away to hunt ghost towns, homesteads, pioneer and military encampments in Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, California, New México and a number of central and eastern states, as well.   The bulk is in the 'west' and in locations with very high mineralization levels.

Generally, I get batter depth of detection with Concentric coils, and most places I hunt 'depth' isn't a major issue due to all the shallower masking trash as sites are heavily littered.  Smaller-size coils tend to perform well for me and the sites I work.

There are several notable differences between the DeLeon and Cortes.  I owned both when I was a Tesoro Dealer, and dumped them as they performed terribly.  The Cortes was the better of the two, but gave me problems in the bad ground I hunted, especially with search coil changes.    That's because with Tesoro's designs, the change of a coil often requires a change in the GB for perk performance.  The first Cortes I got I took afield with the stock Concentric 8X9, plus an 8", a 7" and all Concentric, as well as a DD CleanSweep and 10X? coils  It only worked with the stock coil and one other.  the rest of them resulted in a lot of falsing because the GB was way off for the Discriminate mode.

It had one other glitch and I sent it to Tesoro.  It was returned with the other glitch taken care of, but I still had falsing with half of the coils they returned that I sent in.  The external Manual GB functions with the Threshold-based All Metal mode, only.  I had to open it up and located the GB trimmer inside for the Discriminate mode and 'calibrated' the GB setting (meaning I tweaked the GB trimmer for a functional setting to handle all the search coils I had) By that time I had a two more coils to check out.

Through the years I have spoken with, or e-mailed with, a number of people who had one or the other of those models and had difficulty with an accessory coil falsing and/or not performing well.  They, also hunted in a modest to higher mineralized environment and not a mild or mellow location.

Monte

 

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19 hours ago, Rick N. MI said:

Paul,

The Lobo ST I had worked better with concentric coils and was hot with the gb negative.

Does the Lobo w/ gb work as well as Lobo ST w/ gb turned negative inside?

Rick

Again, I am not Paul, but I have owned and used both the Original Lobo and the latter Lobo SuperTRAQ.  With the Lobo for general-use applications I enjoyed the 8" brown Concentric coil.  Nabbed a 1904 Silver Morgan Dollar on my first Day I took it afield.  A lot of Wheat Cents, other coins, plus a 'V' Nickel, 1904 Indian Head Cent before I took a lunch break, and a 1904 Barber Dime as my last find for the day.  I called it my '04' Day.

A nice day, for sure, but I didn't like the LST all that much, partly due to the Auto-Tracking All metal mode and fixed GB Disc. mode.

I preferred the 'original' Lobo with manual GB that was tied in with both modes.  Thus, I ran it just slightly negative GB setting .

Monte

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Paul,

I always envy some of the displays you have of the models you've gathered up.  I've trimmed my detector count down quite a bit this past year and am at 18 now, but that's counting the Regular-Use Outfit I use, the few I have for demonstration use in seminars/presentations (the older units) and a few I still have for sale.  Hopefully I'll be down to about '10' that I'll have on-hand for regular use before summer gets here.:rolleyes:

Monte

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Hello Monte,

Thank you for taking to time to share information with the Cortes, Deleon and both Lobo models, that’s good to know especially with the original Lobos manual GB ties in with both modes.  Because of our soil in my area,  I’d probably stay with a DD to help stability a concentric may sway the opposite due to our mineralization.

You’re doing well keeping your equipment count down,  18 at present yes that’s quite a bit hopefully you can hit yourself target of 10.

      I had planned on selling the bulk of my top end, been saying that for years hopefully this year will make time to list them. As for the vintage models, probably keep those including all the modified ones.  
 

Yesterday,  tooK out four ID models to the same site.  Tekentics Mark III, CoinScanner 2 Pro, GoldScanner Pro and a Whites 5900 with manual GB. Only three pistol balls surfaced, and a pouch full of trash. Still, a fun day. Peaceful surroundings, an orchard with shade trees. Owner drove by and we waved to each other, he let’s me detect here.  Land is an 1850 settlement, now an orchard.
 

The Tekentics Mark III, is a 1&2 filter detector. It’ll adjust itself based from mineralization, overall a good detector even for relic hunting.  Use a fisher DD coil with the Modded Mark III, good depth and good coverage and surprisingly very good separation.

Someday when I get close to retirement,  will join one of your ghost town hunts. Probably bring a few vintage models for the hunt, Just thinking of the hunt brings a smile ear to ear 😊

Thanks again Monte!

Paul

 

076B16A0-87DE-4F6A-A76C-730457A2FC5E.jpeg

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When you say your soil is poor is it just heavy with iron? I run my Tejon in various grounds with both the 8x9 concentric and the 10x12 widescan. Ground balancing is much easier with the concentric but oddly the 10x12 did well at the beach, better than the concentric. I couldn't ground balance the 10x12 on damp sand so instead I tossed at 50% (1 1/2 turns from 0) and it didn't false out at all which surprised me even with the gain at max (not overload). Depth wise it would be similar to any other vlf out there.

I would think the Vaquero would do well out there, maybe better in tougher ground with the same 10x12 dd. Tejon and Vaquero both have the HOT circuit for that extra punch. I don't know if the Lobo has the same or not.

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