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Yes Jason, I reckon your right about getting 95% of the gold in 10% of time spent, I am with you on that one, I don't mind leaving 10% that takes 95% of the time to get the last bits.  Way better to spend the next amount of time getting the next 95%.

Same goes for chaining/gridding, I just believe going over the ground once and keep moving along, to me you get 95% of the gold available in the first instance and keep moving.

cheers dave

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Jason, thank you for the hours of effort and the great report.

Have a good day,
Chet
 

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14 hours ago, jasong said:

Today I spent 7 hours of detecting with smoothing off, threshold at 24, bumped my gain back to 16 and slowed down to a glacial crawl and scraped or dug every single subtle, semi-repeatable tiny warble in the threshold I could pick up in 2 patches which I had just run the 17x12" and 17" round over. I started thinking all those barely there signals I got tired of messing with previously might have been nuggets after reading JP's thread so it was worth a go with brighter, non processed audio, to see what I missed. I've flogged these spots with the Z14 at least 6-8 times each too, plus a GB2. Originally ran with a thold of 12 and low smoothing on the Z14, as it was my go-to for Gold Basin. I knew there were some iffy signals to investigate.

I got about 30 or 40 hotrocks (mostly BIF and magnetite clusters buried 3"+ deep), a lot of small lenses of hot ground and black sand concentrations, a lot of disappearing signals, and I found one 0.17 grammer with quartz in it. That nugget was not audible in the ground on Difficult and I would have missed it if I tried tamping down the hotrock response by moving out of Normal, it sounded just like a barely audible buried BIF chunk. 

One thing I still know for certain is that kind of detecting still isn't for me. I know it's next level to find the almost non-existant signals and turn them into gold, and I know I could if I wanted to spend the time doing it. But, I believe I can get 95% of the gold in 10% of the time running low smoothing, 8-12 threshold, 18-20 gain, HY, Normal, out here generally and that lets me enjoy the time outdoors more, just my personal preference. The Z really does make signals pop and if you are on the gold and running hot settings, it's going to tell you without much effort or scrutiny required, the X Coils really do seem to sharpen up the responses even more on top of that too. A 10" or 17" X with low smoothing will hit stuff a Z14 with no smoothing can't hear even faintly. No equivocation. 

I am liking the 17x12 less and less and the 17" spiral round more and more. The 17x12 has a real problem with desensitivity at the ends, to the point that the 17" round is actually easier for me to pinpoint with and covers a ton more ground at greater sensitivity, paradoxically. The form factor of the 17x12 is greatly preferable, but I don't feel as if it's a lot of use when the coil isn't very hot at the ends. Maybe it's just my coil, dunno. I'll post a video tomorrow or sometime to show what I mean.

One thing - I cannot for the life of me run in Semi Auto with these X Coils out here, only full Auto. Otherwise I'm digging hot rocks every 2-5 feet. This is ground that I wouldn't call it exactly normal to dig more than 4 or 5 hotrocks a day in detecting normally. Ground is quiet though and it will balance fine. Another observation -  I haven't had a single "zed warble" target with the X Coils yet, not even trash, which is just an oddity and not a bug. Might just be my targets.

The reason you are having to use Auto over Semi-Auto is the rocks are high in X signal, because the coil does not balance X signal properly you have to rely on the combination of G and X balance tracking associated with the Auto mode. 

Just as a suggestion if you decide to go down this path again, try running your threshold on 27, Audio Smoothing OFF, Volume 8 and lower, Sensitivity on 9 and let the detector do the work. I feel the way you had the detector set up your enhancing natural variation into the target space which is very fatiguing especially in High Yield Normal. In essence your usual settings were using Smoothing as a filter to control the increased audio response that higher sensitivity levels create, lowering the threshold below 27 is tending to suggest you are using it as a volume control measure because it sounds too dominant at higher levels, problem is the threshold gets very stop start below 27 surging constantly.

Instead when using the settings I’m suggesting keep lowering the Detect page Volume to control intrusive non-even responses when using the lower sensitivity and higher threshold of 27. High Yield Normal has oodles of sensitivity even with sensitivity set to 9. Do not be afraid to lower the Volume right down to 4 or 5.

JP

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School's in...

Also, isn't it kind of cool that we, unlike so many, are involved in a sport that already dictates social distancing and not hanging out in crowded places?

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18 hours ago, jasong said:

with smoothing off, threshold at 24, bumped my gain back to 16

Just out of interest - what are your Volume settings at and do you use a booster of any sort?  

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22 hours ago, jasong said:

One thing I still know for certain is that kind of detecting still isn't for me. I know it's next level to find the almost non-existant signals and turn them into gold, and I know I could if I wanted to spend the time doing it.

Thank you for this description of THAT!

I can't find the time to detect that way either.  The Arizona gold I've found talked my language and I keep looking for more talkers.  I did write down JPs 'try these settings' and will try them when I go back again.

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14 hours ago, Northeast said:

Just out of interest - what are your Volume settings at and do you use a booster of any sort?  

12, I think? Whatever default volume was, I've never changed it from factory on my 2nd GPZ. My hearing is pretty good and I've never had to use a booster, I still have a ton of volume to go up on the GPZ itself if I needed it, but I've never felt I needed it. Much bigger problem to me is audio fatigue where my brain starts selectively ignoring stuff when there is a too much of a threshold drone and too many spurious signals.

17 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

Just as a suggestion if you decide to go down this path again, try running your threshold on 27, Audio Smoothing OFF, Volume 8 and lower, Sensitivity on 9 and let the detector do the work. I feel the way you had the detector set up your enhancing natural variation into the target space which is very fatiguing especially in High Yield Normal. In essence your usual settings were using Smoothing as a filter to control the increased audio response that higher sensitivity levels create, lowering the threshold below 27 is tending to suggest you are using it as a volume control measure because it sounds too dominant at higher levels, problem is the threshold gets very stop start below 27 surging constantly.

Not so much using smoothing as a volume control as a way to make the audio cleaner so I can detect more ground, faster. Not by swinging faster but by concentrating on spending my time digging signals with a high probability of gold, versus spending time digging signals with a much lower probability of being gold or spending time stopping and analyzing signals that are largely just ground noise/EMI. Do I miss stuff? Yes.

I am not in the camp that I need to hear the ground under me. I understand it's not PC to say this as most the experienced guys generally say they want to hear how the ground changes under them. My eyes tell me what I need there though and I don't need to know if I'm over hot or mild ground as I move. More important is for me to look at the geology and topography around me. I want a quiet threshold so I can pay attention to the world around me and just have targets jump out at me, it helps me stay on the gold more than listening to wether the ground is varying. 

I do understand what you mean about the start/stop nature of the threshold, but that's exactly what I'm going for. I like my signals to be sharp and definite, and my threshold to be minimal and in the background. I know I occasionally miss faint threshold variation stuff as a result, but my experience is it pays better to spend time hitting more ground than spending time chasing these types of signals. 

I've done some experimenting on in-situ targets here where I detect, and I've found a big difference between running at 9 gain and 19 gain. Low gain misses a ton of tiny blips that are to me very definite gold targets in my smoother, but high gain settings. I have some video of almost exactly this somewhere, might be on my computer at home and I'll look when I get back. Turning gain down, but thold up and smoothing off could not not hear a target I had just found with smoothing on, thold around 12, and gain at 20. In the video it ended up being a 7 gram target in the wall of a wash, maybe I have it on my GoPro here, I'll check tonight, I gave up on posting videos last year though and lost track of all the stuff I was going to compile. I've experimented similarly before on in situ targets and it generally shows me the same, higher gain/lower threshold hears things that lower gain and higher threshold/no smoothing miss.

Maybe it's just my conditions, maybe it's my lack of skill or lack of patience, but this is what works best for me here. 

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4 hours ago, jasong said:

am not in the camp that I need to hear the ground under me. I understand it's not PC to say this as most the experienced guys generally say they want to hear how the ground changes under them

In essence what your saying is your a prospector and not essentially focusing on being a detector operator. People would be horrified if they saw how I detect when I’m out “prospecting” as it is a totally different approach. Time is the most valuable commodity and there is no time to dilly dally, leaving a few nuggets in the ground is OK, they are fuel money for later excursions.😜😇

From a PC OCD perspective I just cannot bring myself to use any sort of filtering when the GPZ is so learnable/usable with the Noise floor at its lowest point, I start with Zero Audio Smoothing and go from there, it is immutable AFAIC. Because you are running such high sensitivity levels you're forced to lower your Threshold.

I presume your using headphones? Or is it just the WM12? If headphones 12 is WAY high and could be the cause of the instability you are describing. High Yield has an inordinately high amount of volume in its own right, this is why people who are able to use Normal struggle so much when they go to Difficult, because it sounds so muted and strangled unless the ground signal is extremely bad.

I have areas in Australia where I have used Normal constantly, last year was one of those times and I pulled many many ounces taking full advantage of the High Yield Normal timings. I was also able to take full advantage of the 17” round X coil as well which kicked proverbial😜 thanks to its very good near to coil sensitivity and of course extra depth due to size. In the more variable areas I just lowered the TARGET Volume to compensate for ground signal variability that started to dominate the threshold, you can easily do this in High Yield as the timing has oodles of grunt. All you have to do is subdue the “in your face” twitchyness by controlling the most powerful control which is the Target Volume (Volume control on the Detect page). This is why I use a booster because it gives you more control over volume without having to resort to using the Target Volume which is too coarse!

As a suggestion try using these with a quality booster such as a B&Z or Steelphase. The audio in them is quiet so a booster is required, but the noise cancelling is incredible and allows you to hush out a lot of noise pollution whilst still feeling connected with the world.

B2826816-E203-49FB-AE88-D8765C457829.thumb.jpeg.239904cae51402e7d26782137f7191f1.jpeg

Everything I‘m saying is suggestions only, I of course will be experimenting with the way your running your machine. However in my experience ramping everything up then being forced to then dumb a lot of it down through filtering is counterintuitive. If the busyness of the machine is annoying then just lower the Target volume till it is subdued, so long as you can hear a smooth stable threshold you will hear targets. Applying Audio Smoothing is telling the detector you do not want to hear anything below a certain point, no amount of sensitivity increase will get it back again once its filtered out.

It can take quite a long time for your ears to readjust to a lower volume/sensitivity, your brain does a heck of a lot of filtering on its own. Your old patch is a brilliant opportunity to experiment now that you’ve gone over it in your preferred style and removed all the targets, dependant on your time allowance of course. If you had time it would be a good place to spend and hour or two going over it again experimenting with the Target Volume till you had a clean audio that did not punch up all the variable responses but allowed “Good” metal targets to stand out. In Normal I am ruthless, a target signal needs to have good “lead in” and “tail out” especially the deeper ones. “Lead In” and “Tail Out” are hugely affected by filtering.

Lastly I mean no offence and sorry to harp on. I understand where your coming from and the way you like to run your machine and how it compliments your detecting style, clearly you’ve spent a lot of time experimenting to come up with what works for you.

JP

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One thing that I do agree with is just how good the Bose earbuds are. Expensive but brilliant. My other option is the Aldi Bauhn noise cancelling headphones. They work better than many of the more expensive options. (AU$40.00). I use both these audio systems in conjunction with Quest WiFi (not necessary with GPZ of course). The Quest Rx has a volume control, so I have not found the need for a booster, but for those with reduced hearing this could be an option.  Quest is not the most expensive WiFi, but the best that I have used so far. Add an X coil to these, and you're 'cooking with gas'.

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5 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

As a suggestion try using these with a quality booster such as a B&Z or 

I have this exact headset and I love it. Never used it for detecting though as I was afraid the noice cancelling feature would add to EMI, or any other electronic component of the detector would be compromised. Do you recommend to use it, in combo with a booster like the SP01? Is this headset made for hearing the right detector audio frequencies? I know this can be an issue.

I often hunt in howling wind which would make this a nice tool to have, assuming it would not compromise detector performance in any way. Thanks.

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    • By phrunt
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      Today I was given a couple of videos of more gold being found and again the gold was in soil so I thought I'd show you the videos.  Gold is where you find it 🙂 Rules don't seem to apply.
      These two videos are the 10" X-coil and filmed yesterday.
      This sort of thing is familiar to me, this is often how I have found gold, just in soil and oddly most of my biggest bits have been found the same way which I've often posted about in the past and they've been in spots hammered by everyone around here, so the likely reason I found them is nobody bothered to detect the soft loamy soil areas instead targeting mostly the bedrock.

      Here is the photo for the total of the day

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