No Detector Needed This Time

[Gerry in Idaho]

My good friend RJ was scouting an area to detect and his eye catches something not so normal.  Very cool video and heck of a history save.

 

[kac]

Sweet find, thanks for sharing.

[GB_Amateur]

Gerry, so you're saying a person's eyes make a good metal detector?  A couple observations that I'm sure a lot of people have already made:  1) the road looks recently graded.  That likely exposed this from a buried condition. 2) The fact that the wooden grip is still intact (although obviously not pristine) and its present condition could indicate very roughly how long it's been lost.  And your dry western US climate has helped preserve that.  Here in the eastern 1/2 to 2/3rds of the US I suspect it would be long gone (although not the steel).

Nice sunbaker relic!

 

[Gerry in Idaho]

6 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Gerry, so you're saying a person's eyes make a good metal detector?

Yes we can see the road was just graved.  We hunt a few old mining camps in the higher country that are and have been for 100+ yrs., main travel-ways.  Each Spring and Fall they grade the roads and it is a good time to metal detect them.  This actual find...I am must certain was under sole until it was graded. 

I have found Chinese Coins, an Indian Head Cent and even a gun barrel without a detector and as many experienced nugget hunters know, even a few gold nuggets on occasion.  I have found 2 Morgan Dollars without a detector and they were at different locations and I didn't even have a detector with me.

You are right about the condition of surface finds Back East.  When I was stationed USMC at the Port of Wilmington, NC.  I used to walk the banks at low tide and find pieces of history.  If most of it was stuck in the mud, then it might be ok.  If it was exposed, the condition would be much rougher.  Mud and clay are great preservers of metal objects.

20 yrs ago my wife and I were detecting with Jimmy Sierra Normandi and my wife recovered a 5th Century Saxon Cruciform Brooch that still had cloth fragments attached.  The archaeologists were running around going nuts.  It is now in the Norwich Museum and the certificate is proudly displayed in my shop with actual drawing and photos.

[Tom_in_CA]

As you and others have noticed:  The road was recently graded.   I realize that you & RJ still think it's a "period loss", by virtue of .... perhaps .... it had been buried, and then brought-to-the-surface by the heavy-equipment blade. 

 

I suppose that's possible.  However, .... I notice you're still waiting for a gun ID buff to chime in, on the ID.   If it turns out to be modern then .... it's just a modern loss.   But even if it's old, then be aware that people still have old  guns in use, even to this day.   For example, when I was a kid, my neighbor was still hunting with his grandfather's turn-of-century rifle.  

 

I work in road construction, and also do a  lot of demolition hunting (ie.: "following bulldozers" when they're in old-town districts).   And to me, that gun seems like something that'd only been there a few years, dropped perhaps after the last road-blade dozer had gone through there.  I might be wrong, but .... just sayin' ....

[Gerry in Idaho]

Tom, It is period piece, but as you say could have been lost later on in life.  I've dug enough relics in our region to get an idea of iron wrought and feel this one certainly is old.  But part of the unknown is just that?  When a TH'er finds a Morgan Dollar at a grade school and it is only an inch down, it is assumed to have been a recent loss.  Reality is we don't know and most will never.  I have dug period buckles out west with leather still attached and in fact did so last month.  Either way, we enjoy what we do and I thought is was cool for him to catchit on video.

[Joel]

A unique & interesting find. A case of right place at the right time. It looks like a boot or vest pocket gun to me. I uploaded a couple of similar images.  Great find.

[Gerry in Idaho]

Joel,  His does have an octagonal barrel too.  Thanks

[Joel]

I found another image that looks like a good match (bottom image) also appears to be a tapered octogonal barrel.  I have included the description from the original Pinterest site for the bottom pistol shown.

B) Made circa 1870s-1880s. Standard markings and features, with "F.A. Ware Boston" inscribed on the backstrap, matching numbers and smooth bird's head grips.
BBL: 2 1/4 inch round
Stock:
Gauge: 38 RF
Finish: nickel
Grips: walnut

Maybe this will get you closer to identification.  Good luck.

[GB_Amateur]

On 3/17/2020 at 7:23 PM, Gerry in Idaho said:

But part of the unknown is just that?  When a TH'er finds a Morgan Dollar at a grade school and it is only an inch down, it is assumed to have been a recent loss.  Reality is we don't know and most will never.

Well stated, Gerry.  The only thing we know for sure (at least those of us who don't aspire to time travel) is that knowing when an item was made puts an upper limit on when it was deposited -- that is, it can't have been there prior to when it was made.  What impresses me about the illustrated find is the condition of the grip combined with the semi-arid climate it was recovered from.

I've seen articles which claim to age the time of a 19th Century target drop to a few months.  With any measurement there is an uncertainty surrounding it, and unfortunately way too often that uncertainty is undertermined, irgnored, and/or unreported in the final chronicle.  A good example can be seen by the narrator (note:  not the treasure hunters) on History Channel's Curse of Oak Island.  Scientists report and the treasure hunters relay the 95% confidence interval of an item's origin.  Example:  1640 to 1720.  Then the producers tell the narrator to use the most sensational date (1640) in his commentary.  (These are the same producers who have added 'curse' to the show's title.  The real curse is that they get away with this BS, and the treasure hunters bear the wrath of the skeptical audience.)