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TDI Pro and The TDI SL


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Hi everyone I am stuck with a choice to make, The problem is I have a TDI SL and I been wanting the TDI Pro for about 5 years but they do not import it over here but now Whites have agreed that I can have one due to some leeway in transporting the batteries, I have always wanted the pro and in the end I bought the SL Only because they did not import the Pro and now I can have one Is it worth my while to buy it, Being so close to getting it is now having a knock on effect of am I doing the right thing, There is less than an Inch when it comes to depth between the 2 machines, But the real Bug Bare for me is am I ever going to be able to turn the gain above 5 or 6,, I have seen a guy doing those tests comparing all the PI's and he has the Gain running flat out, and it seems to be running very well, I would go as far to say Smoother than my GP 3500 use to run,

If anyone has any info of factual use that would be great to here your views, along with how high you can run them etc because if it cant go above 5 or 6 then my SL is going to be deeper maxing out at 10,

There seems to be many folks talking about how the Pro warbles is it really that bad, baring in mind I run my MXT and the GMT just where it starts to warble depending on my mood and patients, I am not bothered about chest mounting the machine because I like to get away from the machine when I am digging So am I making the right choice, ??

Note I was going to buy one of the 4500s but because of the junk over here it is impossible to work a PI without some form of Disc system,

Yes I do want the Pro,, Is it a wise choice ?? Is it any better ? can I run it up around the 8+ mark without losing targets due to the warble?.

the SL is a great machine and I have some new battery tests coming up which I will add to the Battery Thread,

Thanks Guys,,, john

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I found a "Reg modded" TDI for under $1000. The threshold is lovely now.

That was lucky Rick,  I sent a message to the Guy on YT and he said that his Pro is standard yet he runs it flat out and it barely makes any noise, So I am thinking that the noise issue is more related to more to the surroundings than the machine its self and Reg's mod just desensitizes the machine to ignore EMI, Because a few people have said that they can run the machine up high, ? 

 

john

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Sorry John, you are incorrect.  There is no desensitizing of the machine.  In fact, the primary signal is the gold channel which is what is used for the TDI when the GB is turned off has absolutely nothing done to it.  

The main culprit for noise is the GB channel because of the needed gain for ground balancing.  The mod modifies the GB channel only.

The source of the noise can be from external EMI or it can be from internal components with the preamp the main area where the noise is generated.  So, if we neglect the external EMI, then the main noise comes from the preamp and associated components.  Replace the preamp with one that has a dramatic reduction in noise output and part of that noise is eliminated.  Then other changes simply bias the GB channel such that the noise is shut off or nearly shut off but not so much that the GB doesn't work right.

Oh yeah, there are other ways to minimize the noise, but I will leave the design to you and others.  My generosity with White's or others has been terminated.  

I understand you don't believe the "hiccup" problem with the SL or SPP exists on other units not sent to OZ.    Well, if you ever get back to OZ, you will find out differently, especially if you don't get your unit modified.  

Reg

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Reg I know the Hiccup is a problem with the SPP but I have never seen anyone showing the hiccup when using the SL

As this video shows clearly

what bothers me is how can such things be released hence In August 2014 I bought an SL but because Whites UK do not sell Many I ended up with one Dated 2012 so there is no chance that if there is a problem with using it in OZ then I am Stuffed, So not long after you told me about it a few month back Now, I phone Whites UK to try and Get It Sorted out and they told me That as far as they know there is no such problem with the SL, So I argued the toss with them and begged to differ so I can not get it fixed here and will have to pay to get it done when I get back to OZ because it will be out of Warranty by then

I have No Doubts In A Single word that you have said and I agree with you 110%, So My only other choice is to Buy The Pro, Which has taken me 5 years to get whites uk to order one and that only happened because I asked SHoward Why Can't Have One and it was him who Told the powers that Be what will happen,

I am very annoyed at being sold a machine in August 2014 that is Dated 2012 when in fact they should have recalled world wide and put right the moment this issue was found,

So Now I have to wait for the pro to turn up or Buy A Minelab 4500, which will punish me because of the Junk over here, But I am starting to think maybe I should just do that and Dig more junk,

As for the bit about the de.sign, there is no need for hostilities because I don't doubt one word you have ever said In fact if you have not said something is so then I do not believe it, so please take the time to understand what I am saying

thanks mate,,, John

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On 9/5/2015 at 4:24 PM, Reg said:

Sorry John, you are incorrect.  There is no desensitizing of the machine.  In fact, the primary signal is the gold channel which is what is used for the TDI when the GB is turned off has absolutely nothing done to it.  

The main culprit for noise is the GB channel because of the needed gain for ground balancing.  The mod modifies the GB channel only.

The source of the noise can be from external EMI or it can be from internal components with the preamp the main area where the noise is generated.  So, if we neglect the external EMI, then the main noise comes from the preamp and associated components.  Replace the preamp with one that has a dramatic reduction in noise output and part of that noise is eliminated.  Then other changes simply bias the GB channel such that the noise is shut off or nearly shut off but not so much that the GB doesn't work right.

Reg

What ever the correct term is, either way your mod is making the machines not see or ignore or hide the noise, You know what it is you know the cause and how it effects the machine, I don't,, I am An end user so what ever it is called is totally Alien to me and any such talk goes over my head and as an end user my only concerns are why is it there and how can I get rid of it,, If it was a small Block Chevy or a Ford then I could wring it out to dry, but electronics just does not make sense to me, hence why I threw this question up here so those that do know the Answer can put it into words that I understand,

take care,, John

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Hi John,

Sorry if i sounded like I was picking on you.  I simply want people to know that just because someone says something isn't so, doesn't make it correct.

Now, for those wondering, the SL and the SPP use the same mother board part for part.  The difference is in the software where the delay is fixed on the SPP and adjustable on the SL.  The other difference is there is no conductivity switch.  Since the conductivity switch is is totally part dependent, then adding a switch with the proper connector is a simple doable procedure.  

As for why you never saw a video of the SL with a hiccup, the answer is simple.  White's never knowingly sold the SL in OZ.  The only TDI series detector authorized to be sold in OZ was the TDI Pro.  Then, Jimmy Sierra purchased a bunch of the SPP's (with a different name) and renamed them the SPP.  Shortly afterward, he began selling them in OZ via the distributor there.  Once they began to sell in OZ, the "hiccup" began to show up.  

The owners tried many things including adding a 10 turn control to the GB, like the one shown on the video you posted.  Regardless of what they tried, the problem still existed.  Then a guy named Luke Lindsay contacted me and asked if I would help.  Well, no matter what I did over here in the US, I couldn't duplicate the problem, which obviously, made fixing the problem impossible.  So, I had Luke make several videos and send them to me and I began to troubleshoot the problem remotely.  

Fortunately, Luke had a good electronic background and sufficient test equipment.  So, I came up with several ideas and, with Luke doing the work and testing in OZ, we were able to find a solution to the problem.  I will say it again, Luke was a key reason the problem was resolved.  Without his help, I wouldn't have been able to find a solution.

I would also like to thank the former CEO of Whites, Alan Holcombe, who through his support to me by providing what I needed just before he retired.  Unfortunately, that cooperation ceased once Alan retired and it took a while before White's incorporated the needed changes.  Also, any and all communications between me and White's ceased.  I quit trying to communicate with anyone there once I was told their technician refused to take my call before they finally tried my solution.  I figured it was time for me to quit wasting my time with them.  

For anyone, especially a nugget hunter wanting to try a low priced PI, the SPP is a perfect choice, especially if one wants to buy new.  Remember, Jimmy Sierra is the key supplier to OZ of Whit'es equipment and his willingness to buy the SPP is the key reason it was in OZ.  Once Alan retired, I continued just to help Jimmy.  

To me, Jimmy Sierra is a legend and has spent most of his life promoting White's metal detectors.  He is a legend that deserves respect.  For those of you who don't know, Jummy is one of the key reasons for the existence of theTDI series of detectors as well as the MXT and GMT.  

The SPP also woks well for anyone wanting a PI for beach hunting.  Turn off the GB and add inches to the depth.  Since the SPP coil is a plain mono, it works better than the dual field in ignoring small junk.  The SPP originally came with the 12" mono and a 6" mono.  I am not sure what it comes with now.  

Reg

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John, I looked into these "mods" as well but just couldn't find anyone who could or wanted to do it(in the US that is) so I gave up on the idea. Besides I haven't had any issues with the SL anyway. Its been my experience that the key to increasing performance while maintaining smooth threshold with the SL is to run modest size coils(6x10 elliptical or 7.5 round) and keeping up on fresh batteries. The TDI really sucks the juice and hundreds of hours on this machine have taught me that when the batteries start to fall out of spec the threshold becomes erratic and it has difficulty staying balanced. When running at high gain I will swap out a battery pack of alkalines every 3-4 hours no problem. I too considered buying a TDI Pro but opted for another SL instead. You may find of interest that I bought my first SL in 2012 and the other in 2014 and have not noticed any performance differences between the two with the coils I use. I don't think it matters much which PI machine used in iron infested sites as they all struggle big time. Facing a similar problem, I recently bought a Fisher F75ltd2 for this purpose and although still learning it (lots of bells and whistles!) it handles mineralized ground better than any VLF I've used by far, also heard good things about the FORS too. I don't consider myself any kind of "TDI Wizard" but it has been my only PI unit for several years and these are my observations...Rob

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