Nox Speed And Separation

[sube]

Trying to get some answers for over a year on why I need speed for separation I figured a tech savy group her could lead to some answers.

Simple 1 minute test pull-tab with dime 3 inches away on left side and a dime 3 inches away right side of pull-tab same plane .At 2 inches nox and ctx hit with proper id .Now raise the coil 5 inches no separation nox will only id as tab 13 or 14 ctx same however ctx will id correct to 10 inches using side of coil nox no coil size did not matter .

Replace tab with nail nox does better will id to depth but with id of 12 13 14 or 15 16 and 17 the ctx will give proper id as deep as it well go .

What I think is happening is as the coil is raised the field becomes larger thereby encircling all the targets no separation now we have a blended signal .

I get the speed thing where the audio is shorten letting you hear the targets separately instead of bunch up but all you have to do is slow your coil sweep to hear the targets . (WHERE"S THE SEPARATION)

That 1 tab on the same plane kills the separation of the nox dead in it's tracks what about a 3d target situation can only imagine .

Fairgrounds are the worst place you can run a detector nails big iron cans pull-tabs foil can slaw and every piece of junk know en to man.

So I need id the ctx is far better than the nox getting back to the dimes and pull-tab at 10 inches with the nox the dimes have to be 6 inches away from the tab to get good readings of a proper id (WHERE"S THE SEPARATION THEY TALK ABOUT) wondering if the deus fairs any better .

I seen all the guys whipping targets as fast as they can and say man that has separation yeah at 2 inches what about where the coins are good ones 6 to 12 now I could care less about separation at 2 inches i'm not looking for clad . All the test I have seen 2d 3d and on have been done close to the targets what about 5 inches I think they all would fail . sube

[Steve Herschbach]

What was the question exactly? Sounds like you are happy with what you have, and that’s great.

[sube]

Separation  . sube

[Steve Herschbach]

Separation what? Sounds like you are saying you think the CTX ids better and has all the separation you need, and you don’t think the Equinox does better? Sounds more like a statement than a question, but I’ve not had my coffee yet and so may be missing it. 

[Tometusns]

Sube,

Pull tabs are a detectors nightmare. They are an accepted target. How many times have you dug a target and were surprised to see what was in the hole. Quarter numbers being two dimes stacked. I've even dug a nickel signal that had a merc under it. I can tell you if there's junk around a good target the nox will lock onto it and the other stuff seems to disappear once you're over the top of the good target. The coil being over a conductive target (Pull tab) the machine simply says there it is. Locking on to the best signal.

Iron is much easier to see thru.  I think possibly because it's a ferrus target and the machines brain tries to separate it from conductive targets. 

I've seen tests where the good targets and bad targets are really close or even stacked and the machine will hit with skewed numbers from what a normal signal for that certain target would be. 

Notching out the pull tab numbers and going to the small coil helps. You get a three way with the numbers off. Also with out the numbers notched I would get two distinct signals one way with the lower pull tab numbers being dominant. When doing a 90 degree I could hear the high tone on the dime and the low tone on the pull tab when backing off the high tone . Again numbers not indicative of a dime but higher than a tab. Just knowing there's two different targets there should cause a guy to dig.

Thanks for posting this. I have learned something that may help me because I detect a lot in old hunted out parks. This is why I keep my small coil.😁 

 

[Steve Herschbach]

I guess you want some kind of answer for why you don't think the Equinox gets better separation than the CTX. The problem is where I hunt in dense targets the CTX goes blind on items the Equinox easily detects, so from my perspective it's a straw man argument. In other words, I disagree in general with your basic premise though of course there always will be specific situations where a CTX might do better. Yes, large coils can provide some sort of "see around" capability, that's well known. Bottom line if the CTX works better for you then that's what you should use. My experience was just the opposite, and I sold my CTX immediately upon getting some hours with the Equinox. A CTX with a 17" coil is a target hog though and I'm not knocking the machine at all. Different strokes for different folks, ground, and targets.

[sube]

Steve why does the nox separate at 2 inches and not at 5 inches with the dime and tab at 5 it blends the targets .This test was done with the 6 inch coil on the 2 detectors .sube

[Steve Herschbach]

It is impossible for me to say "why" not having done the test myself and even then I may not know. That's what you are reporting and I accept that's what you saw. Why does the CTX not even beep on targets my Equinox beeps on? In a nutshell I'd say a difference in how the two machines process the targets, and nobody outside of Minelab knows exactly what the processing differences are, so it's all speculation. No one detector is perfect at all things and in my experience I can always find things with one detector that another missed simply because they have different operating characteristics. Minelab still sells plenty of CTX 3030 detectors because the Equinox did not make it obsolete. It's one of the finest detectors ever made and if for triple the price of an Equinox you could not find something it does better than an Equinox then a lot of people are getting ripped off.

[Jeff McClendon]

I have no clue about the CTX 3030 since I have used one for just a little and never owned one. 

Why the Nox blends aluminum and clad targets and separates iron and clad a little better.........from my understanding of the little bits of information coming out about Multi IQ it seems that the return signals for iron and the return signals for non -ferrous are separated in the processing of the signal. Depending on how many frequencies are being transmitted and returned simultaneously, only one iron signal is registered from the multiple frequencies and all of the non-ferrous signals are registered and averaged. So if your Nox coil is over a small iron target and say a small gold nugget, the nugget will get two or three shots at being detected while the iron target only gets one. Depending on what mode you are in if you have a dime and pull tab at roughly the same depth and orientation, the pull tab is more than like going to drown out the dime so to speak and blur the target response since they are roughly the same size and one is a low to mid conductor and the dime is a high conductor.  Just my two cents.

 

Jeff

[kac]

For separation no matter what machine the narrower the cross over between the Tx and Rx will give you better separation. Depth is gained from the total width of the coil and coverage by the length. This is pretty much true with all vlf machines with a dd coil.

So to say that id's are changing then you have what seems to be a signal contamination where 2 different metals are creating a new signal or different id and depending on the bias of the machine ie how it favors low conductors vs high conductors (in case of the nox I believe that is done by the base settings ie prospect mode favors small low conductors, park mode less).

As a quickie example if i take my Tejon and set it so the tone breaks on a square nail and put a dime far away I will lose the dime around 8-9" as the Tejon favors lower conductors. If I move that dime next to the nail I can hear the dime much further away as the conductivity of the 2 are mixed and the dime is now a lower conductor. This is when contamination can be good.

Toss a horse shoe or ox shoe in the mix and you lose it all then trimming out the iron. A narrower and smaller dd coil can give you better vid when there is many close trash around. I tend to hit a target from different directions and if I lose the target in one direction or get a big spike then there is a good chance there is more than one targets and good or bad I just dig it.

I can't speak on the CTX directly but have seen people do incredibly well with it and on par with others that know their Nox's well in the same area. Knowing the machine is a must as with any machine or brand. They all pretty much do the same thing and knowing it's capabilities and having the right coil for the job works best.

I see too many nail board test and all sorts of staged testing that in the real world mean nothing. I think there are too many real world variables to come up with some pattern of trash to find a treasure.

Not sure if any of this helps or not.