Nox Speed And Separation

[JohnnyRox]

If I'm not mistaken, the CTX can track and display 2 separate targets.  I think the CTX has a processing advantage over the Nox. 

[GB_Amateur]

16 hours ago, kac said:

I see too many nail board test and all sorts of staged testing that in the real world mean nothing.

Sounds like a bit of an exaggeration.  😏  Every test means something, but interpreting/deciphering the meaning can be difficult to impossible.  I also prefer real-world tests, but even those are vulnerable to conditions and thus susceptible to misinterpretation.  IMO, everyone should have some kind of test setup as known conditions can help figure out what the detector is trying to say in the wild.

There's a reason gold detectorists take test pieces into the field and tune to those.  I think some relic hunters do the same.

 

[kac]

Majority of nail board tests use modern nails and not the old iron. I can't remember the last time I dug a modern nail. Maybe in some areas modern nails are more prevalent but not here in my neck of the woods.

I can see why there is a need to create some sort of baseline for testing like an air test gives best case scenario and quick idea on VDI #'s and ok to test between machines and coil combinations.

Test gardens would be the better way but only relevant to machines tested in that area and not necessarily applicable to everyone. At best they seem to be a guestimate. Just too many variables to account for.

[Chase Goldman]

On 4/7/2020 at 1:48 PM, sube said:

Trying to get some answers for over a year on why I need speed for separation I figured a tech savy group her could lead to some answers.

Simple 1 minute test pull-tab with dime 3 inches away on left side and a dime 3 inches away right side of pull-tab same plane .At 2 inches nox and ctx hit with proper id .Now raise the coil 5 inches no separation nox will only id as tab 13 or 14 ctx same however ctx will id correct to 10 inches using side of coil nox no coil size did not matter .

Replace tab with nail nox does better will id to depth but with id of 12 13 14 or 15 16 and 17 the ctx will give proper id as deep as it well go .

What I think is happening is as the coil is raised the field becomes larger thereby encircling all the targets no separation now we have a blended signal .

I get the speed thing where the audio is shorten letting you hear the targets separately instead of bunch up but all you have to do is slow your coil sweep to hear the targets . (WHERE"S THE SEPARATION)

That 1 tab on the same plane kills the separation of the nox dead in it's tracks what about a 3d target situation can only imagine .

Fairgrounds are the worst place you can run a detector nails big iron cans pull-tabs foil can slaw and every piece of junk know en to man.

So I need id the ctx is far better than the nox getting back to the dimes and pull-tab at 10 inches with the nox the dimes have to be 6 inches away from the tab to get good readings of a proper id (WHERE"S THE SEPARATION THEY TALK ABOUT) wondering if the deus fairs any better .

I seen all the guys whipping targets as fast as they can and say man that has separation yeah at 2 inches what about where the coins are good ones 6 to 12 now I could care less about separation at 2 inches i'm not looking for clad . All the test I have seen 2d 3d and on have been done close to the targets what about 5 inches I think they all would fail . sube

Sounds like you simply don't understand the concepts of recovery speed  (which facilitates detection of separate closely spaced targets because the detector can reset quickly as it detects target after target as they come into the coil's active region during a swing -detectors with slower recovery speeds, like the CTX, need the targets to be more widely separated to individually detect them than detectors with faster recovery speeds, like the equinox) and proper coil control (e.g., wiggle) that allows you to lock onto single targets within a group of closely spaced targets (like Tom was saying above)..  Swinging slower doesn't help if your swing encompasses all the targets and the effect is worsened if your detector has slow recovery speed.  Suggest you do a forum search on the the term "recovery speed".  Good Luck.

2 hours ago, kac said:

Majority of nail board tests use modern nails and not the old iron. I can't remember the last time I dug a modern nail. Maybe in some areas modern nails are more prevalent but not here in my neck of the woods.

I can see why there is a need to create some sort of baseline for testing like an air test gives best case scenario and quick idea on VDI #'s and ok to test between machines and coil combinations.

Test gardens would be the better way but only relevant to machines tested in that area and not necessarily applicable to everyone. At best they seem to be a guestimate. Just too many variables to account for.

i have to agree with you on the nail board tests.  My main problem with them is that they are 2-D, everything lying in the same plane.  That is not how detecting works in the real world.  Tests are good to make very rough relative comparisons, but the best test platform is the field, digging everything until you really know what your detector's language is telling you and then getting selective from there, if you want or need (due to time limitations or because you can't tear up the site) to play the odds.

[kac]

Iron can mask out targets especially when nails are above the target. That doesn't necessarily make the machine obsolete or useless by any means as you do need to know your machine and it's abilities no matter what brand or model.

The CTX is a very high end full featured machine and I am pretty sure with the right settings it would perform pretty much the same as any of the Nox presets with similar coils. Downside I see with the CTX is the learning curve can be daunting and mastering a machine like that takes some serious dedication. I myself is pretty savvy but am intimidated by that machine.

[sube]

4 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Sounds like you simply don't understand the concepts of recovery speed  (which facilitates detection of separate closely spaced targets because the detector can reset quickly as it detects target after target as they come into the coil's active region during a swing -detectors with slower recovery speeds, like the CTX, need the targets to be more widely separated to individually detect them than detectors with faster recovery speeds, like the equinox) and proper coil control (e.g., wiggle) that allows you to lock onto single targets within a group of closely spaced targets (like Tom was saying above)..  Swinging slower doesn't help if your swing encompasses all the targets and the effect is worsened if your detector has slow recovery speed.  Suggest you do a forum search on the the term "recovery speed".  Good Luck.

i have to agree with you on the nail board tests.  My main problem with them is that they are 2-D, everything lying in the same plane.  That is not how detecting works in the real world.  Tests are good to make very rough relative comparisons, but the best test platform is the field, digging everything until you really know what your detector's language is telling you and then getting selective from there, if you want or need (due to time limitations or because you can't tear up the site) to play the odds.

Chase thanks for your reply a little about myself I have detected for 50 years  have used minelabs for over 20 years  I only hunt thrash with a 6 inch coil (Sounds like you simply don't understand the concepts of recovery speed  (which facilitates detection of separate closely spaced  targets)

( the CTX, need the targets to be more widely separated to individually detect them than detectors with faster recovery speeds, like the equinox) (wrong) it's coil speed

separate closely spaced  targets) Like a dime 3 inches left of tab(SQUARE TAB OFF TODAYS SODA CAN) and a dime 3 inches right of tab . Ctx clearly separates the targets at 2 to 5 inches same as nox after 5 inches they both fail even running the nox at recovery 8 speed did not matter they both fail .If you spend one minute and do the test you will see forget about the CTX were talking about the nox It was sold as a separater because of the speed do the test then ask yourself why does it not separate passed 5 inches .

As far as the minelab wiggle it won't do you a bit of good if you never hear the dimes and are only hearing the pull-tab nothing to wiggly on .As far as sweep speed fast or slow no dime signal . Do this simple 2d test and see for yourself the ? was why do I get id and separation from 2 to 5 inches and no separation from 5 inches and deeper . sube

 

[Tometusns]

Sube,

   I think we should get a bunch of different detectors and do the test. I'm thinking we may find it's just the nature of the beast. But I think I understand the question now and you were hoping one of the guys on here could explain why that happens. 

 I'm sorry I can't help with a real scientific explanation but I see what you're asking.

  Perhaps someone with more knowledge about the field will have some insight.

                                                 HH! Tom

[Jeff McClendon]

Did anybody read my post???? I know I am not an expert but I actually tried to answer Sube's question. 

I am trying to learn as much or more than offer advice. Any comments would be very welcome. Educate me please.....

Jeff

[sube]

Jeff said So if your Nox coil is over a small iron target and say a small gold nugget, the nugget will get two or three shots at being detected while the iron target only gets one. Depending on what mode you are in if you have a dime and pull tab at roughly the same depth and orientation, the pull tab is more than like going to drown out the dime so to speak and blur the target response since they are roughly the same size and one is a low to mid conductor and the dime is a high conductor.  Just my two cents

Yes read your post thanks for the reply but the ? remains it does this fine to 5 inches and then becomes blind to the dimes .My untech mine is seeing no separation past 5 inches fact .I think it has to do with the coils field getting bigger and bigger as you move away from the target a ( physical thing can't be changed ) and maybe all detectors would act the same way .Maybe it's just not possible to change the out come at depth of course this is just my low tech observation . sube

 

 

 

[Jeff McClendon]

If you are using multi frequency in Park and Field modes, the Nox is going to lean more towards bringing out the lower conductor pull tab  as opposed to the high conductor clad dime. The deeper the target, the non-ferrous lower conductor of the two targets will still be stronger and may mask the dime some. In real world situations where I have a lower conductor target next to a target with a slight, quiet hint of a high conductor, (had this yesterday on several pull tabs and pre 1982 pennies at 4 to 8" in high mineralization where my numbers were consistent 16 to 19 with one or two 23s thrown in) I just dig the strongest target first and recheck the hole.

 

Jeff