Simplex And The Future

[dogodog]

My commentary wasn't meant to offend but to but point out that we sometimes expect to much from the many entry level detectors. Like Simon said, the lines are somewhat blurred nowadays with mfg. technology pushing into higher end machines but they still are entry level detectors. That being said I think the mfg's do this to help compete in such a tight market. I'm kinda old school and still love my Tesoro campadre ($150 Machine). But I know its not as good as others but I still find a lot of stuff and enjoy it. Would I trade it for a Simplex? Nope!  

[Phoenix50]

Detector comparisons are a minefield that so many people seem happy to stumble through.  Does one compare detectors based on price, features, ergonomics or environment? (By environment, I mean country. IE. conditions.). In Oz the Simplex+ sells for $475. The closest Vanquish, in price, is the 440 at $499.  If I was to buy a Vanquish, I would get the 540 Pro Pack which is $699.  So, should I compare the Pro Pack with Simplex+?  Well, no IMO. So, without field testing, how does the Simplex+ measure up against the 440?  The first obvious point is the the 440 has Multi IQ, whereas the Simplex is single frequency.  440 wins.  Build quality:  Having held both detectors, my opinion is for the Simplex.  Simplex wins. Coils: Each has relatively the same size coil. A draw.  Waterproof. Simplex is fully submersible while the Vanqush has 1 metre depth with a rainproof control box.  Simplex wins. Modes: Simplex has 5, Vanquish has 4. Simplex wins.

So, what does that prove? Nothing. Because, most of you reading this have already picked apart my arguments.  Fair enough.

I own both Equinoxes and a Simplex.  The 800 is a terrific machine that has capabilities that I am yet to master. I use it 90% of my detecting time.  I have a 6 inch coil on the 600 so I can pull it out to use in tight areas.  I bought the Simplex as a loaner. I’m impressed by all three detectors.  So, everything is relative, I have three coin and relic detectors that I am very happy with and comparing them (For me) is an exercise in futility. I’m not going out to buy a Vanquish in the hope of getting a detector that will out-perform the Simplex+.  I already own two Equinoxes that do that.

So, where comparisons are useful, they are primarily for a beginner looking for their first detector, an experienced detectorist looking at adding to their stable or a detectorist who is dissatisfied with the machine they already have. Sure, there would be more reasons.

Therefore, it is incumbent on the tester to approach any comparison without pre-conceived notions about what the reader knows, wants or already owns.  As I said, it’s a minefield when one embarks on comparison testing.  For example, I’ve always been a Mercedes fan but, every time I see a BMW, I wonder.  If I could buy one of each, I’m sure I would find fault in both.  But, if I chose just one, relying on reviews and comparisons, I would be very unimpressed to find the sources were inaccurate or based on bias, or worse, paid opinion.

Good luck conducting any tests, someone is sure to cry foul if the results don’t already suit their pre-conceived views.  And, please, I am not knocking anyone who does.  I read them. 😁

 

[Sven1]

It all comes down to the individual persons needs and likes that fall within their budget.

The great thing about Nokta/Makro, is the company (Dilek) makes every Nokta/Makro product owner feel like they are a valuable part of the company family and will listen to them.......Unlike other companies who just consider you another numbered customer.

That's a big draw, which also makes you feel good using their products.

[Chase Goldman]

That seals it, I won't be posting any results.  Just results in a lot of nay saying and recriminations and accusations of bias, which if ultimately leveled at me would really come across as totally insulting, quite frankly.  I'm not up for that.  If comparing it against the Vanquish doesn't prove anything, what's the point?  In pre update testing on a lark I found Vanquish easily hits shallow to medium depth test targets of varying conductivities in my yard in all modes that Simplex wasn't hitting in some cases (Park nada, beach was better) for whatever reason.  Thought it was odd and of some interest especially with the new Simplex updates on the doorstep.  I was mistaken to attempt to grab hold of that lightning rod.  I have been hesitant to do recorded functional comparisons in the past and have been reminded why in this thread.  Definitely not interested in setting foot in that "minefield".  Thanks for the remainder. End of story.

[Phoenix50]

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

That seals it, I won't be posting any results.  Just results in a lot of nay saying and recriminations and accusations of bias, which if ultimately leveled at me would really come across as totally insulting, quite frankly.  I'm not up for that.  If comparing it against the Vanquish doesn't prove anything, what's the point?  In pre update testing on a lark I found Vanquish easily hits shallow to medium depth test targets of varying conductivities in my yard in all modes that Simplex wasn't hitting in some cases (Park nada, beach was better) for whatever reason.  Thought it was odd and of some interest especially with the new Simplex updates on the doorstep.  I was mistaken to attempt to grab hold of that lightning rod.  I have been hesitant to do recorded functional comparisons in the past and have been reminded why in this thread.  Definitely not interested in setting foot in that "minefield".  Thanks for the remainder. End of story.

Wham. And there it is.  Into the minefield I bumbled.  My post was not a criticism, but an observation.  In fact, I thought I was writing in support of what was intended.  Reinforcing, if you will. If you had read to the bottom of the post, you’re reaction may have been less explosive. (Pun intended.). I READ comparisons.  What I draw from them is on me.  My initial point was trying to agree that it be like vs like or, type vs type.  Price bracket vs price bracket.  As well as being cognisant of whom the comparisons may  be useful.   Anyway, here’s my head bobbing back below the parapet.

Peace brother.

[Sven1]

5 hours ago, phrunt said:

I like comparisons, as long as they've been done fairly they're important.  I make decisions based on them, very few have let me down.  Please put up your video Chase!

Yup, that is after you do the Simplex update. It does make a difference. Especially now that the Simplex has better see thru in the beach sand we have here that has magnetic black sand mixed in. Videos are good, as it lets you see how a detector responds to different soil conditions around the country. What works good in your soil, may not work well in anothers. And you won't know for sure unless you are able to try that detector in the soils you hunt. I have had detectors that worked superb in Northern soils, take them south and they turned into dogs.  That's why it was always a good idea to seek out local club members or a local dealer and see what they are using, most likely the brand model that is working there.   Air tests-bench testing is really all its good for, doesn't give actual performance unless you take it out in the field  and add the ground matrix. That tells all.

[Chase Goldman]

I am rethinking this all over.   This is not in response to Phoenix post, but more Phoenix reminded me of the minefield I was about to embark on and that was a great reminder.  I need to think through the right way to do this and the right way to present the results and unless I have that figured out, I am not venturing close to that minefield.  I am more of a features comparison guy (compare detectors on paper) and then post my finds results and let those speak for themselves.  The Simplex obviously gets it done.  Phoenix posted some spectacular coin shooting results pre-update, so those don't lie.  Recently, I have had only a few chances to get out before things were basically shut down for me as far as site access is concerned.  Because detecting time was such a precious commodity, I have had little time to experiment in the field with a new detector, preferring to hit the hot spots with my tried and true reliables (Deus/Orx and Equinox).  Simplex and Vanquish have only been recently acquired and I have not had the opportunity to really run them through their paces in the field.   The only thing that made me dust off the Simplex in the first place was the new update and I thought here was a unique chance to get some controlled pre and post updates in the process since, unlike Minelab and XP, Nokta doesn't presently allow you to roll back to a previous update at this point (at least that is how I understand it), so it was now or never if I plan to get the Simpex updated.  

I have gone over the test garden once again and experimented with different Simplex modes and found that Beach mode, for whatever reason, gave the best sounding results on the targets.   I was able to detect most targets in that mode.  Surprisingly, AM which should mimic my Deus pitch mode and Park mode on the Simplex were not as good.  AM really bothered me, it should be the deepest.  Park, I could understand because apparently, Nokta focused on separation in Park (hence relegating the original Park to Park 2 status and adding a deeper but less response Park 1 mode in the update).  I need some more run time to garner real results and will either post my results solely in writing or will post videos if I think they are actually useful.  Unfortunately, I have a face made for radio, so we'll see.

More to follow....I will post the results in detector comparisons since I will be using Vanquish as a reference and perhaps the F75  as a similarly equipped single frequency detector for comparison.  F75 = 13 khz/Simplex = 12 khz.  Gives me a reason to dust off the venerable F75.

[Monte]

15 hours ago, phrunt said:

I chickened out on buying a Simplex as they are so difficult to buy in NZ and you have to import one, ...

It to me seems similar in performance to my T2 so far, I'm keeping a close eye on it though as I love the features and I would like to support Nokta as I like them as a company.

Sorry to hear they are tough to get in NZ, and expensive to boot.

As of this morning (here in the eastern chuck of Oregon, USA) I own and use the following:

A Nokta FORS CoRe w/'OOR' DD

A (once Steve's) Nokta FORS CoRe w/5X9½ DD

A Nokta FORS Relic w/5" DD

A Nokta / Makro Simplex + w/updates

A Nokta Impact w/7" Concentric

A Minelab Vanquish 540 w/5X8 DD

A Minelab Vanquish 540 w/9X12 DD

An XP ORX w/5X9½ DD

A Tesoro Bandido II µMAX w/6" Concentric

A Tesoro Silver Sabre µMAX w/6" Concentric.

Of those 10 detectors, 2 of them might get thinned out in the next couple of weeks.  Any guesses?  Most probably, you'd guess wrong.  But on my current For Sale Lust I'm going to eliminate a Minelab Equinox 800 I just acquired on the 9th w/extra 6" DD coil, a pristine condition modified White's IDX Pro w/3 coils, and a newish Fisher F44 w/11" BiAxial coil.  All 3 of these are proven to perform and satisfy many consumers, but we can only hang on to so many that cover our needs.

I can tell readers that the first 4 on my list are all models that have a very good 'fit' in my detector team and are going nowhere.  the ONLY thing I need are smaller coils for the Simplex +.  I've been limited on when I can grab it due to the heavily littered sites I search most often, and with an 11" DD coil, I am either working a wide-open grassy park, or put it to use in a plowed field, range-land or pasture-land.

I'm sorry to her that 'Chase' isn't enjoying the satisfaction in performance afield with his Simplex +.  To be honest, I have been 'satisfied' with my Simplex + which I've had for five months now, even those my search time has been limited due to the wintry season and lack of smaller-size coils.   Once we got into spring-time weather I've ben using it more, and it has easily held-its-own against quite a few mid-priced to higher-cost detectors I've done comparisons with and that included some well-known models I have since parted with, such as the Teknetics T2+.

Then this past Saturday I did the new Simplex + 'updates' and didn't lose any of the performance I had before.  However, I now have an improved level of versatility with the added Park 1 mode and enhancements to some of the other modes plus other common adjustment features.  This device so impresses me, I am planning on what coils they offer that will work for me, and that's helping me figure out what other detectors I might thin out of my current outfit.  I still use my Beach mode set-up the most, but it looks like the 3-Tone Park 1 mode is going to likely move into the #1 slot with tis model.

'phrunt,' I hope you get an opportunity to get one in your hands and do your own comparisons.  Nokta / Makro have even raised the bar with this, their lower-priced model.  It is lower-priced but it certainly is not an 'entry-level' class detector.

Monte

[Monte]

Chase Goldman said:

I am rethinking this all over. ...   Good!  I look forward to your comments and a video, if you make one.

The Simplex obviously gets it done. ...   Absolutely, and it's working for me, and will be more versatile with smaller-size coils.

I  have had little time to experiment in the field with a new detector, preferring to hit the hot spots with my tried and true reliables (Deus/Orx and Equinox)....   I listed what I use, and one , like you, is the XP ORX. 

Simplex and Vanquish have only been recently acquired and I have not had the opportunity to really run them through their paces in the field....   I've had 5 months oif hunt-time with my Simplex +, and a couple of months now with my Vanquish 540.  Both work quite well, and can complement each other in certain applications.  The Simplex just needs smaller coils.  The Vanquish, however, lacks a lot of good adjustment features I have on the Simplex +, such as Automated GB or Manual GB adjustment, and there are more..

I have gone over the test garden once again and experimented with different Simplex modes and found that Beach mode, for whatever reason, gave the best sounding results on the targets. ...  I have all of my Disc. modes opened up to Accept ALL of the Disc. segments, and I have done, before the updates, 90% of my hunting in the Beach mode.  I have been impressed with the audio performance of Beach mode, especially, nd like the Non-VCO function.

Park, I could understand because apparently, Nokta focused on separation in Park (hence relegating the original Park to Park 2 status and adding a deeper but less response Park 1 mode in the update)....   Park was the weakest mode so far as depth-of-detection.  Most typical places where I would use park mode are going to be trashier, thus you need a quicker recovery time to benefit and get better separation performance.  That quick response-and-recovery also limited depth and target processing time.  It's still there in Park 2, but Park 1 is really going to draw more of my hunting attention.  I think Park 1 and Beach mode, in that order, are going to be my main-use modes depending upon the particular site environment I am hunting.

Monte

 

[palzynski]

6 hours ago, Monte said:

Simplex and Vanquish have only been recently acquired and I have not had the opportunity to really run them through their paces in the field....   I've had 5 months oif hunt-time with my Simplex +, and a couple of months now with my Vanquish 540.  Both work quite well, and can complement each other in certain applications.  The Simplex just needs smaller coils.  The Vanquish, however, lacks a lot of good adjustment features I have on the Simplex +, such as Automated GB or Manual GB adjustment, and there are more..

 

I do not need an Automated GB or Manual Gb adjustment on my Vanquish .It works perfectly without this in my area ..  ML it is urgent to do Nothing on this machine … 🙂 Look at the end of the thread below  :