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Will It Be Garrett Apex Or Nokta/Makro Lightning?


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The Garrett Apex will be out the middle of next month but we don’t know just when the N/M Lightning will show up. We do know it should be out before the years end .

 Garrett been giving us a sneak peek of the Apex . It looks with what I’d call a door knob on the face may be saying it’s maybe not totally digital.

 Like so many I’m wondering if it will be multi frequency are just be able to select what frequency you prefer to run .

 Garrett will have to pull out almost what I’d call a miracle to overcome the obstacle like the Nox. Now here comes Nokta/Makro with their new detector the Lightning and they know it’s got to be better if not equal to the Nox.

 I see myself waiting on the Lightning but it don’t make my dream come true I can always get the Apex.

 I keep forgetting a great low cost detector I don’t have and that’s the Vanquish. I already have the Simplex + and I think it should add another + with the 2.77 update.

 Being my Birthday is on the 15 th of May I really don’t like cake and who knows I may be eating crow . That’s if Garrett comes out with something great and at a great price.

 Garrett I truly wish you the best with the Apex.

 Chuck 

PS I know most of you want to know why I’m using the name Lightning. It’s the name I picked and it has a great ring to my ears.haha

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The Apex will be announced on 15 May (we will finally be able to see its specs and form factor) but it is not clear when it will be released.  We knew everything there was to know about the Equinox 3 full months before it was released.  Don't get me started on the FT Impulse...  And as impressed as I am with Nokta, in general, I also seriously doubt that the Nokta whatever it is going to be called first generation Multi machine will be as good as, much less better, than the Equinox which is Minelab's 3rd or 4th generation multifrequency machine.  I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, though.

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  • 2 months later...

Looks like you nailed it, Phrunt!   I'm surprised that there's been no further comment on this thread since much of the info on the Apex came out and they're taking orders.  

Well, now I don't know what to do to upgrade from my AT Pro...  my quandaries are:     

1) it's unclear to me what kind of depth the Apex will get (is it going to be deeper than AT Pro) and whether it will have the features I want (since it is at the Ace level) although it's a very attractive simultaneous multifrequency option,

2) Anfibio was an option for me but I'm not going to buy it if Nokta/Makro will replace it with a true simultaneous multifrequency machine, and

3) I'm not going to sit around waiting for months and years for N/M to bring such a simultaneous multifrequency machine to market, if they ever do instead of just continuing their habit of dropping  hints and teasers since spring 2018 that they are working on one.  

4) I find some of the marketing ploys on other "simultaneous multifrequency" machines with 28 or 35 or whatever frequencies a bit disingenuous so I probably wouldn't go there.

I'm tempted to just pull the trigger on a Nox 800, but I am still a little reluctant after hearing about some issues with build quality ("ear" tabs at coil bolt connection, waterproofing issues, flimsy shaft etc.), depth, stacked targets & targets on edge, etc.    If anyone has input on the Nox 800, whether they've overcome these problems, and their overall satisfaction with it, customer service, etc. I'd love to hear.  My goal is relics and coins in colonial/farm/woods settings, depth and separation better than AT Pro (although the Pro has been great for me in that setting, I think I can do better).  Getting tired of waiting on Nokta/Makro and I want to buy an AT Pro upgrade/replacement before the year is over.  Thanks in advance.

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6 hours ago, Finding History said:

reluctant after hearing about some issues with build quality ("ear" tabs at coil bolt connection, waterproofing issues, flimsy shaft etc.), depth, stacked targets & targets on edge, etc.

It basically is a matter of what you want to hear. The Equinox is one of the most popular metal detectors ever made, with huge numbers of satisfied owners who don’t have problems. To be perfectly frank, some people break stuff... but it’s always the manufacturers fault it was not made stronger. I remember a guy who came into my shop and wanted warranty on the Husqvarna chainsaw he broke when he felled another tree in it. His reasoning? Husqvarna should have made it stronger. Arm rest cuffs and coil ears....  nobody ever says they leaned on it or dropped it and just plain broke it. In nearly 50 years of metal detecting I’ve only had a few times where something physically broke on a detector. Guess how it happened. I broke it! :smile:

So you can pay attention to the people who post about problems... and they often do. And ignore all the people who are not having problems, which people rarely post about. “Was out detecting today, nothing broke or leaked.”

This is true of all detectors. Google any popular model looking for problems and you will find threads about problems.

Garrett AT Pro Broke

Garrett AT Pro Leak

New stuff has warranties. Most never use the warranty. Some do. That’s life, no matter what product you buy.

Targets on edge? Most detectors have issues with on edge targets versus flat. Stacked targets? Oh yeah, huge issue, stacks of coins buried everywhere. I swear there is one class of detectorist who never detects, but just endlessly tests detectors looking for weird stuff so they can “discover” something to post about. All detectors have quirks if you want to find them.

Or you can pay attention to large numbers of people having success with a particular detector. It basically is a matter of what you want to hear.

I have the three oldest Equinox in the country. One has the so-called loose shaft that people freak out over and which I have to pay attention to to notice. Most people would not notice, but it got posted and everyone started twisting shafts looking for it. I dribbled a little sand in the juncture and that fixed that. I ran over one unit, broke the shaft, and had the faceplate separate a little. Glued and clamped it, replaced shaft, still going strong. That’s it, my litany of problems. If I had to sell every detector but one, my Equinox stays. Best all around detector for coins, relics, jewelry, the beach, and gold prospecting ever made in my opinion, and probably will be until Minelab comes out with a better version.

I should add that if I was not wanting a waterproof detector, my other choice would be a Deus/Orx. And I’d certainly be looking hard at the Apex, but it’s going to have to prove it’s better than an Orx anywhere but the beach. Nokta/Makro SMF unfortunately is still just vaporware at this point so not worth waiting on until something more solid develops. But if I had to have waterproof that is not Equinox, a Nokta/Makro Multi Kruzer would be high on the list.

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If you're worried about the ears breaking, you can try 3d printing a set of these:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3949618

If you don't have a 3d printer handy, they are sold for pretty cheap in a lot of places online.

I know I can file a claim with ML to have them take care of it if they break, but my philosophy is "it's better to be proactive than reactive".

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1 hour ago, Finding History said:

 

I'm tempted to just pull the trigger on a Nox 800, but I am still a little reluctant after hearing about some issues with build quality ("ear" tabs at coil bolt connection, waterproofing issues, flimsy shaft etc.), depth, stacked targets & targets on edge, etc.    If anyone has input on the Nox 800, whether they've overcome these problems, and their overall satisfaction with it, customer service, etc. I'd love to hear.  My goal is relics and coins in colonial/farm/woods settings, depth and separation better than AT Pro (although the Pro has been great for me in that setting, I think I can do better).  

I have to echo what Steve H. said.

I have thousands of hours on both of my Equinox detectors. I have hunted with them at mountain elevations over 10,000 ft in snow, rain, in the AZ desert, on mountain sides, in saltwater surf, freshwater lakes, submerged, and just your normal turf or relic hunting. I have had ZERO problems aside from the wobbly shaft issue on my Nox 600 which a little plumbers teflon tape fixed in 30 seconds. The arm cuff is flimsy so I bought a nice cover for it from Doc's. I eventually upgraded to one of Steve Gs fantastic custom made shafts. That's how much I love the Equinox. 

 Now, I know of several almost full-time saltwater beach/surf hunters who have had coil ear breaks and leakage. There is nothing like saltwater and medium to heavy wave action. It can tear up just about anything. I do not think their coil ears and my coil ears are any different. I have never over tightened mine, I don't use my Noxes as a crutch or cane and but I don't baby them either.

I had the luxury of relic hunting on two occasions with an AT Gold and an Equinox 600. The AT Series are excellent detectors. However in the moderately mineralized dirt I was hunting in, I dug several great relics (three ringers and cannon ball fragments) at 14" with the stock 11" Equinox coil that the AT Gold with the 8.5 x 11" coil would not hit at all. The Equinox 600 not only clearly hit those targets but it also told me clearly that the lead targets were low to mid conductors and the cannon ball fragments were iron.

If the Garrett APEX or the hopefully soon to arrive Nokta Makro SMF detectors are "better" than the Equinox, I will be pleasantly surprised and would be happy to own one. Otherwise, if you have done any research on the resale values of the Nox 600 and 800..........it's a no brainer. Even if you use it for a month and hate it, you will get most of your money back and will have just rented a fine detector for a month.

 

Jeff

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2 hours ago, Finding History said:

I'm tempted to just pull the trigger on a Nox 800, but I am still a little reluctant after hearing about some issues with build quality ("ear" tabs at coil bolt connection, waterproofing issues, flimsy shaft etc.), depth, stacked targets & targets on edge, etc.    If anyone has input on the Nox 800, whether they've overcome these problems, and their overall satisfaction with it, customer service, etc. I'd love to hear.  My goal is relics and coins in colonial/farm/woods settings....  (emphasis mine)

Sounds like you've been doing your homework.  That's good.

AFAIK, most if not all the mechanical concerns you mention are related to using the Minelab Equinox in the water.  Water detecting is extra stressful on detectors.  It sounds like that isn't your intended type of hunting so I would expect the likelihood of you having a problem with reasonable use (i.e. not using the detector as a cane or crutch, etc.) is minimal.  And it does come with a 3 year warranty which most who have needed to use it have been pleased with the customer service they received.

A lot of detectorists treat their detectors like some do automobiles -- customizing and modifying.  Jeff mentioned wanting a different arm cuff, for example.  But most people who drive cars leave them stock and get along just fine.  It's completely up to the individual.  I modified my shaft because I happen to be one of those detectorists who prefers an S-shaft.  (A kind of boxers or briefs preference...)  I also was having wrist problems I thought might be related to the shaft type but later found out that was arthritis -- not caused by swinging a detector.  I added some padding to the arm cuff to tighten things up.  I used a different screen protector than what was included.  I added a ring of foam to the handle to keep my hand farther from the control unit.  All personalized touches which most don't bother with and do just fine (as I would have, too).  Sure, there are things I would like to see done differently, such as ease of access to the 'profile' (save alternate settings) button, and I recall lamenting that situation here on this forum.  Overall, though, Minelab got things right.  I have many detectors and I use the Minelab pretty much exclusively for parks, schools, and (private) historical residences.  My actions vote for me.

Finally (and Steve went into this quite a bit), there is a parallel in consumerism to the cliche' "the squeeky wheel gets the grease."  If you've bought on sites like Amazon and pay attention to the reviews, you probably know what I mean.  Human nature, apparently, leads to unhappy purchasers being more vociferous than the content ones.

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1 hour ago, phrunt said:

...It puzzles me why Garrett made theirs an entry level model, let's not kid ourselves, there has to be a reason for that as it's going to take away a lot of interest in their higher end models with no higher end MF machine in sight from Garrett.

I wonder what you mean by 'higher end models'.  The current AT's (Pro, Gold, Max) are probably already hurting since they aren't simultaneous multifrequency.  If you mean Garrett should have come out first with an AT/SMF, that is a good question.  Let's consider some possible answers.

If they were to come out with a $700-$900 competitor to the Equinox, it would need to be at least as good, and preferably better than the Equinox.  Maybe they aren't there (yet).

Another thing to wonder is "how many current AT owners are going to buy an Apex?"  Throw in the question "how many non-AT but current Ace owners are going to buy and Apex?"  And then there's the third category -- those who own neither.

As always I sound the warning alarm -- we here at detectorpropspector.com are not the typical metal detectorists.  The fact that the Apex may not appeal to us doesn't mean it won't sell.  Minelab knows how to sell to the enthusiasts.  Garrett knows how to sell to the masses.  Seems like they are sticking with their expertise.

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Steve, Optix, Jeff, GB_Amateur, and phrunt, I truly appreciate all of your thoughtful and meticulous responses, especially to someone who is a newbie to the forum.  This is just what I needed to help me make an informed decision.   I was leaning strongly toward the Equinox 800 before I posted but had a few "gray areas" where I needed to seek more input, and after hearing your collective expert opinions, I feel armed with the knowledge that my earlier research and reading was on the right track.  Pretty compelling information, and like most of you have commented, there's a good solid warranty to back it up in the unlikely event that is needed.   I've made the decision to go with the Equinox 800 in the near future (although I would love to hear more from Steve about the Deus ORX & will read his posts about it).  Thanks so much once again to all of you!

Steve -  You're right, after the many Equinox units sold (I have no clue how many but...), the negative reviews about tab/shaft issues probably comprise < 1% of reviews posted that are positive, or those who did not post a review but remain satisfied with the detector.  Such "flaws" do tend to get amplified and exaggerated.   I've been impressed with what I've seen via YouTube and heard on this forum and others, and I trust the opinions posted here... been visiting for awhile but finally signed up to the forum to post yesterday.  Sounds like the Nox 800 will work really well for my intended use (hitting that colonial site in the woods) and then for about anything else afterwards.   The Apex looks really nice, but I'm ready for something more advanced than the AT Pro and I think the Nox 800 truly fits the bill, especially with their expertise in SMF.

Optix - thanks for the 3D printer info!

Jeff - your comments are reassuring, and I don't see myself largely in the water or at least not very deep water.  The info about the depth and tonal/VDI information of the Equinox 800 in relic hunting is just what I wanted to hear and is consistent with what I've heard anecdotally and the videos I've watched.

GB_Amateur - likewise, that is reassuring that those problems were mainly among surf hunters, which for the time being isn't relevant to me.  Thanks for the mods info. You're right about the "squeaky wheel" phenomenon and disgruntled consumers being the most vociferous.

phrunt -  Glad to hear that the Nox has been durable for you.  I get into some rough briars and brambles, fallen trees to scramble over etc. in the woods so that is good to know, although, like Jeff said, I will also not use it as a crutch or cane (I hope!)  🙂

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Finding History said:

although I would love to hear more from Steve about the Deus ORX & will read his posts about it

You won’t find any posts about my Orx use. It is however a subset of the Deus, and I’ve owned a couple of them.  Very impressive detectors, and the only reason I don’t have one is I have an Equinox. The Deus/Orx have an edge in dense ferrous but the Equinox is no slouch there. On the other hand I far prefer the Equinox for water use, so for me the Equinox makes more sense. For those who relic hunt a lot and water not so much, it could lean the other way. Some people think having both is the only solution.

I’ve been watching used Orx sales and if one came along cheap enough I might very well get one, but right now used detectors seem to be fetching premium prices. I don’t need much of what the Deus offers in addition to what the Orx has, and the lower Orx price makes it a more palatable impulse buy. :smile:

 

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