Garrett Apex Sneak Peek

[Guest Tnsharpshooter]

i saw this. Reckon first patent below is associated with Apex?

https://patents.justia.com/assignee/garrett-electronics-inc

[Chase Goldman]

24 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I would think Garrett sells a lot more Ace detectors than any other, just a guess.... with the recent threat of the Simplex and Vanquish they probably needed to come out with something in that price range that's a better than the Ace and more competitive with those two without knocking out their AT series. 

Not sure they really can do that without knocking out the AT series, other than brand loyalty to keep it viable, there is really nothing compelling anymore about the AT series features and performance compared to the immediate competition.  Heck, the Simplex on paper meets or beats it on paper in every category except available accessory coils (and that is only temporary).  So APEX really has no choice but to eat into AT series sales if it is to be competitive against Simplex and Vanquish.

[Chase Goldman]

4 minutes ago, Tnsharpshooter said:

Btw. Saw this.  Reckon the first patent below is associated with Apex?

https://patents.justia.com/patent/9851466

Actually that sounds like the [dreaded] ATX coil/stem mechanism, albeit the ATX came out a few years before this patent was approved.

[Guest Tnsharpshooter]

5 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Actually that sounds like the [dreaded] ATX coil/stem mechanism, albeit the ATX came out a few years before this patent was approved.

That was exactly my first thoughts as well Chase.  Seems if my memory serves me correctly Garrett modded the stem after ATX release.  Don’t know though if this applies to this modification.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, Tnsharpshooter said:

That was exactly my first thoughts as well Chase.  Seems if my memory serves me correctly Garrett modded the stem after ATX release.  Don’t know though if this applies to this modification.

Yep, that could be it too.  Would have to see the patent diagrams to really know for sure.  Even an engineer has trouble wading through all that patent legalese terminology.

[GB_Amateur]

3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I'm thinking a tweaked AT Pro/Max/Gold that fixes iron tone, focuses on pro mode, repackages the control box into the lighter weight cell phone on a stick style and intuitive control ergonomics, and has the ability to use 5, 10, 20 khz (of course with wireless audio and rechargeable Li battery tech).

Sounds a bit like combining three of their current/past detetors:  GTI 2500@7.2 kHz, AT/Max @13.8 kHz, and AT/Gold @18 KHz.  Of course there's a difference between three circuits with their own software and one.

3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Not sure it can be done from a business case/value perspective (especially if it "obsoletes" the AT series, but I would argue other detector manufacturers have done that to a certain extent)....

I'm pretty naive when it comes to how companies optimally shuffle products in and out of the market, so what I say now may be complete nonesense, but why does protecting a fading product justify tiptoing around inovation/improvement?  (This comes up a lot, as for example the Equinox not stepping on the toes of the CTX 3030.)  It seems Nokta/Makro isn't afraid of this scenario.  And if you go back in time, what was the typical lifespan of a detector's market?  Particularly in the 1990's it seems there was a whirlwind of new products from White's, for example, and I think they sold pretty well.  OK, it's not 1990's anymore....

[JohnnyRox]

I wonder if Aquachigger will or maybe already has one.  He's a pretty famous Garrett user.  

[Steve Herschbach]

22 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

why does protecting a fading product justify tiptoing around inovation/improvement?  (This comes up a lot, as for example the Equinox not stepping on the toes of the CTX 3030.

Well, in that example CTX is not a fading product but a viable product occupying a price niche.

It is pretty simple. If you are a manufacturer you need a product line. Lower price to higher price. Each price point must be clearly distinct and offer a clear upgrade price path. Look at Apple... look at any product line.

The goal... compete with the competition, not yourself.

You can disrupt the line (new tech breakthrough) but then everything in the lineup must reset around the breakthrough. I expect Multi-IQ to supplant other Minelab models like CTX when the time is right.

Nokta/Makro is not ignoring this. Simplex is trying not undermining existing product. But they are an underdog trying to gain market share, and so can attempt to justify certain moves seeking to undermine the competition. They have to avoid shooting themselves in the foot in the process. They move so fast though they can reset to Simplex, abandon most other models and replace with Simplex housed models rather quickly. They already say the Multi will be in the Simplex housing. There may be others in the works. Part of it is choosing a physical platform that you want to work with.

[BeachHunter]

Steve does that mean the Simplex will have the multi-frequency option added to the Simplex at a later date? Thanks!

[Steve Herschbach]

1 hour ago, BeachHunter said:

Steve does that mean the Simplex will have the multi-frequency option added to the Simplex at a later date? Thanks!

No. From a business perspective that would be silly. They are in business to sell you hardware. In theory it could be done via a paid software upgrade, but I doubt the circuit board will be the same to that degree. What it means is same housing, maybe compatible coils, though I would not bet on the coils. But the board itself will probably need to be different in some way.

For that to really work a company would almost need to make the top product first, then dumb it down into lower price models. Like Equinox 800 was developed, and Equinox 600 is same detector with features withheld. You could in theory have an Equinox 400 and Equinox 200 instead of Vanquish, but the Vanquish hardware with AA batteries is just plain cheaper to make. Anyway, it's far harder to make the base product like Simplex+, then build it up, and have that work out without a needed hardware change messing up the plan.