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Dave And I Were Out On The Cutoff Again, Today


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We were out on another section of the Cutoff today, and Dave had all the luck. First he found an interesting medallion about 2" x 1 3/4", of brass, with a large star in the center, with 4 smaller stars in a circular pattern beneath. Later he found a token for 2 1/2c from Miller's Famous Resort at the N.E. corner of 8th & Main (no city). Pics below. My luck was only a few blackpowder cartridges, and old shotgun shells. I won't boor you with any more pics of those...LOL. We'd appreciate any help on these two items.

Jim

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looks like the brass medallion is actually a heel plate off a boot.

Jim

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3 hours ago, Jim in Idaho said:

medallion about 2" x 1 3/4", of brass,

That is actually a boot heel plate from the 1860 to 1880 era.

They were probably from a cavalry unit out of Oregon and brought where you found it.

Since I do not know where you found it I would say either near the North West portion of Idaho or near Boise Idaho.

The plate was only used by the Sargent's or higher and only for the cavalry.

My brother had a set of them when I visited him in Oregon several years ago.

Very good find because they are hard to find. They also used brass nails to put them on with.

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I really like that token.  2 1/2 cents?  That seems like a pretty unusual value.  The fact that it has so much info stamped on it should not only make it easier to determine where it is from, but also add to its collector desirability.  With all the boom&bust gold rush towns that existed in the second half of the 19th Century I'm thinking that may be from one of them.  Even if from a current city it's probably of interest to local historians.  Old Crow whiskey has been around since the 1830's.  More research needed!

 

 

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10 hours ago, 2Valen said:

That is actually a boot heel plate from the 1860 to 1880 era.

They were probably from a cavalry unit out of Oregon and brought where you found it.

Since I do not know where you found it I would say either near the North West portion of Idaho or near Boise Idaho.

The plate was only used by the Sargent's or higher and only for the cavalry.

My brother had a set of them when I visited him in Oregon several years ago.

Very good find because they are hard to find. They also used brass nails to put them on with.

Many thanks! it was found on Goodale's Cutoff of the Oregon Train about 25 miles NW of Blackfoot. I found the medallion from a civil war era cartridge box about 1 1/2 miles west of where Dave found the heel plate. It had one brass nail still attached.

Jim

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3 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I really like that token.  2 1/2 cents?  That seems like a pretty unusual value.  The fact that it has so much info stamped on it should not only make it easier to determine where it is from, but also add to its collector desirability.  With all the boom&bust gold rush towns that existed in the second half of the 19th Century I'm thinking that may be from one of them.  Even if from a current city it's probably of interest to local historians.  Old Crow whiskey has been around since the 1830's.  More research needed!

 

 

Old Crow was founded in 1839. The problem is there are hundreds of towns with an 8th St that crosses, or intersects, with Main St...LOL I did a bit of research last night, and got the feeling it's going to be a big job to locate the right city. I had told Dave yesterday that token was probably worth some serious bucks.

Jim

 

 

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12 hours ago, Jim in Idaho said:

I had told Dave yesterday that token was probably worth some serious bucks.

Especially with interest as that should be equal to at least a couple of full bottles of whiskey.

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On 4/27/2020 at 11:37 AM, Jim in Idaho said:

I did a bit of research last night, and got the feeling it's going to be a big job to locate the right city.

 Decided to get A Guide Book of United States Tokens and Medals by Katherine Jaeger to learn more about this broad field.  Just started reading and here are some excerpts which may be relevant to this thread:

p 10: ...In many cases the only vestige left of the existence, name, and location of a long-defunct business or frontier ghost town is the tokens that were once struck to advertise it.

p 24:  Even though federal law of 1864 forbade the manufacture of tokens in one- and two-cent denominations, the use of tokens continued to flourish in trade.  They simply got larger: most post-war tokens were greater than 26 mm in diameter, and wer valued higher than 2 cents.  (So your 2 1/2 cent face value token was the minimum that still met the law!)

p 25:  Beginning in the 1870's, the token manufacturers increased production by means of powered preses and stamping machines, and offered stock merchant style in deonominations of 2 - 1/2 cent, 5 cent, ..., and $1, with a blank space in the center for placement of the issuer's personalzied data.   The proprietor's initials or business name were then stamped in by means of a die insert.  Many issues of a the same metal, size, and design can only be differentiated by a cryptic set of letters or a suname.  Collectors get a charge of satisfaction when they manage, through researching old business directories and census records, to attribute a "maverick" (an otherwise unidentifiable token) to a particular location.  (Your token appears to have a stock message on one side whereas the other side was fully struck with the particular business and location.)

p 25:  In the 1990's, aluminum took its place alongside other token materials.

The book mentions that some states have guides produced for tokens specifally distributed for that state's businesses but there is also a national catalog:  Standard Catalog of U.S. Tokens, 1700-1900 by Russell Rulau.

 

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I guess I forgot to post that we found out the business that gave out the token (Miller's Famous Bar & Resort) was located in Kansas City, MO. Not sure about the year.

Appreciate the info, GB!

Jim

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5 hours ago, Jim in Idaho said:

I forgot to post that we found out the business that gave out the token (Miller's Famous Bar & Resort) was located in Kansas City, MO. Not sure about the year.

Well you almost got it right, as they had several locations along the Oregon Trail, so you still need to find out which town it came from.

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