EL NINO77 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I think Garrett goes for it sensibly .... and put on a Apex coil which has a very good coefficient of Depth / Separation ... and EMI resistance .. Reduced weight and improved detector balance is another plus ... They definitely did enough enough testing to know what they're going into. Since I own a sufficient amount of 6x10 "Mars Sniper coils on various detectors .. and among other things in the multifrequency Spectra V3 ... I can say that the coil on many coin size targets reaches about 85-90% of the range compared to the 12X10" coil in slightly mineralized terrain .. on very small targets it is also 100% reach .. Add to that the improved separation of the 6x10 "coil and you get the same detection efficiency as with the standard 11" coil ... In heavily mineralized terrain, 6X10 "coils can already lose more depth than 11" coils. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dances With Doves Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, EL NINO77 said: I think Garrett goes for it sensibly .... and put on a Apex coil which has a very good coefficient of Depth / Separation ... and EMI resistance .. Reduced weight and improved detector balance is another plus ... They definitely did enough enough testing to know what they're going into. Since I own a sufficient amount of 6x10 "Mars Sniper coils on various detectors .. and among other things in the multifrequency Spectra V3 ... I can say that the coil on many coin size targets reaches about 85-90% of the range compared to the 12X10" coil in slightly mineralized terrain .. on very small targets it is also 100% reach .. Add to that the improved separation of the 6x10 "coil and you get the same detection efficiency as with the standard 11" coil ... In heavily mineralized terrain, 6X10 "coils can already lose more depth than 11" coils. Also a great size coil for a newbie to start out with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB_Amateur Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, phrunt said: Coils are certainly an unusual one, usually with products the product itself doesn't make the lions share of the profit, the accessories do so they like to provide masses of accessories. I'm very confused by the lack of coils manufacturers provide and it's a major frustration for someone like myself that loves having a variety of coils to use for different situations. Just counted my 'inventory' -- seven detectors and 29 coils. For many (most?) enthusiast sales there is big profit in accessories. For the 'weekender' (i.e. non-enthusiast) it's a different story. But the fact that multiple manufacturers exist by selling only coils pretty much confirms what you say. However, I don't think it's a fair comparison -- common consumer electronics (computers and cellpones) vs. specialty consumer electronics (metal detectors being the one we care about). Volume is the big driver in profit for the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 51 minutes ago, phrunt said: There will always be those new to detecting come along but they tend to start off with something cheaper than a Deus That's why the Orx has been moderate hit. The extreme light weight also appeals to the older crowd who want to eek a few more years of detecting. But XP has now fallen way behind especially with Apex encroaching on their weight advantage. 52 minutes ago, phrunt said: The impact the MDT 8000 has had is very minimal and that's unlikely to change, if someone like Garrett released the MDT with it's sales numbers it would be a considered a complete failure. Except that they could likely do it a lot cheaper than Tarsacci, because they have the manufacturing infrastructure and resources to do so and could price it competitively. 55 minutes ago, phrunt said: Let's not forget with any multi frequency machine the manufacturer can allow it to drop back to single frequencies too if the need is there. They can but do not always do so - Vanquish, CTX, eTrac. I think as a minimum, multiple single frequency should be the mid standard with single frequency relegated only to entry level units and simultaneous Multi F overlapping mid and flagship detector levels. Hope Nokta doesn't make that mistake. Bottom line, I agree with you Multi F and at the very least multi selectable single is going to be standard fare for enthusiast level detectors and above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kac Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 The multi frequency should help on depth with the Apex. I know my MK they have high gain modes that really push the machine to the limits and often push too far. Like having a car that can do 180mph but speed limit is only 65. Nice to have that under the hood but I find myself running the machine with lower gain giving me very consistent VDI readings. Do have a question though... is it possible to make a concentric for a mf machine? I know the 9x12 concentric on my ATP works very well even moderate iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 hour ago, kac said: Do have a question though... is it possible to make a concentric for a mf machine? Yes. See White's MF detectors for examples. I have a 6” concentric for my V3i. Whether Garrett does it or not is another question 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 39 minutes ago, kac said: The multi frequency should help on depth with the Apex. I know my MK they have high gain modes that really push the machine to the limits and often push too far. Like having a car that can do 180mph but speed limit is only 65. Nice to have that under the hood but I find myself running the machine with lower gain giving me very consistent VDI readings. Do have a question though... is it possible to make a concentric for a mf machine? I know the 9x12 concentric on my ATP works very well even moderate iron. There is nothing about MF that should preclude the use of a concentric/coaxial coil. ML is not a fan of them apparently. They don't tolerate mineralized ground as well as DD's. I would like to see Garrett offer them for the Apex just like they have for the earlier Ace detectors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaryt Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said: The bare facts are when it comes to Apex there is nothing it will do that I can’t do with my Equinox 800. However, Minelab has stonewalled all coil development for the Equinox, and for this one reason alone I will probably get an Apex. Vanquish produced the coils I want for my Equinox but Minelab so far rubs salt in the wounds by making the mold but refusing to make similar coils for the Equinox, a minor investment once the molds are made. Since the Apex actually seems more like a dry land Equinox than a Vanquish (selectable single frequency options) and since Garrett is likely to support rather than suppress optional coils, I see no reason not to lend my support to a U.S. manufacturer who gives at least the appearance of caring more about their customers than the bottom line. I love competition, and I really want to see a U.S. manufacturer step up and compete. I just might turn into a Garrett fan! I think I already am based on this. White's and First Texas are getting really old with me on the single frequency retreads. yes first texas,and particularly, whites seem be operating on "old money" i want to assume both of them have circuits in 'skunk works" but who knows? seems whitey is slip-sliding away.damn! they piss me off! what the f are they doing out there in ''sweet home!" since they are NOT diversified, they need to "wake up" and fast!..wakey! wakey! eggs! and bacey i'm just sayin' (h.h.!) j.t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn90403 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 6 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said: Frequency smequency... what about coils! X-Coil has proven there is lots of room for innovation, and to this day you can’t get anyone to build a Bigfoot coil again. Too many aftermarket people copy each other making coils that are all similar. Steve, I read this entire thread to ask you how much this coil reminds you of a Bigfoot. It is long and narrow so ... Mitchel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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