Jump to content

Best Detector Values Under $500


Recommended Posts

I've decided to stir things up by presenting a paper features comparison of Simplex. Vanquish, and Apex.  I threw in the Equinox 600 as a "control" because I don't think anyone would argue that throwing out price, the 600 eclipses all 3 of the "value" detectors as far as features are concerned. 

My conclusion is that Apex wins the paper features competition over Simplex and Vanquish. 

The comparison has several flaws, of course, that I am going to acknowledge up front.  First the grading criteria is arbitrary and simply ranks the detectors 0 through 3 for each feature category.  0 being best (usually won by the 600) and 3 being worst.  Each feature is treated equally.  That is, no one feature is weighed more heavily than any other feature (a lot of people put freat weight on accessory coil choices, for example).  Some features are just too "personal preference' driven to rank, such as TID scale.  Actual field performance and implementation are not taken into account since we have no data on Apex (so Simplex wins on tones but Vanquish tends to give better audio strength on targets in my test garden and better TID stability> demonstrating the subjective nature and flaws of a paper study) - again, this is just a paper feature "competition" not a performance competion.  I tried to ensure accuracy in my feature spec numbers based on the spec sheets Steve provided at the top of the thread.  There are just some apple to oranges comparisons that are difficult (like tones) so I made some judgment calls.  Also, you will notice, I scored the Simplex and Apex slightly higher on accessory coils even though Vanquish is the only detector that has accessory coils available.  This was a conscious bias against ML - I think we have seen all we are going to see on the accessory coil front for Vanquish and anticipate that both Simplex and Apex will eventually come out with a lot more OEM and third-party accessory coil variety simply based on their past track records.  I also threw this together quickly, so there are likely mistakes in it.

Lowest overall score wins.  That was Apex with 41, Simplex 2nd at 45, and Vanquish 3rd at 48.  Equinox 600 scored 21.  As you can see all three detectors are close which demonstrates a good mix and trade of features.  Even though Simplex is single frequency, it has such a good mix of other pro like features that really make it competitive.  Bottom line, none of these detectors really touches the Equinox 600, but they all are decent with the Apex eeking out the win in a close competition. 

The first table lays out the features for each detector, the second table provides the relative ranking scores with the last column in each table declaring the overall winner of the three detectors in each feature category.  Simplex was declared the "winner" or tied for the winner in 17 categories, Apex won 16, and Vanquish won 12.  I did not count Equinox in this case.

Bottom Line:  I think the value detectors all came up about the same.  Too close to really make a solid conclusion, so it comes down to the subjective value you place on certain features like multifrequency, waterproof housing, what the tones sound like, ergonomics/layout, and available accessories like coils - and, of course, real world performance which will be determined in a few months.

Okay, let the rock throwing begin.

SmartSelect_20200525-184633_Word.jpg

SmartSelect_20200525-184645_Word.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I am not throwing rocks. I like your charts very much. I have some possible corrections.

Vanquish 540 has 19 possible auto noise cancel frequency shifts on start up.

Vanquish actually has 5 search modes since it has Beach capabilities built in. Minelab calls it "Beach Advantage" in the Vanquish brochure and it is automatic.  So it is not beach capable just because it is multi frequency. It has some sort of salt balance built in from my understanding.

Vanquish and Apex do not need audio plug adapters. Simplex does need an adapter cable (if you buy the version with wireless headphones it is not included.)

Vanquish batteries: 4 supplied rechargeables = 8 hours, alkaline or other non rechargeable =11 hours. This is subjective but having an ease of changing batteries whether one is using rechargeable or being a slob and using throw-aways is debatable. Not giving Vanquish any consideration for this flexibility is a question......

For my style of coin and jewelry hunting having 5 tones really makes looking at the display a minor occurrence.  The Simplex having only 3 tones max for coin and jewelry makes looking at the display for target identification much more important. I think the Apex and Vanquish should receive extra consideration for having more tones and that the Simplex should receive extra consideration for having VCO audio. So maybe make it two separate categories. 

The Equinox 600 has 25 levels of iron audio adjustments in discrimination mode. I often use a default search mode, accept everything except -8 and -9 for ground mineralization noise and turn my iron audio down to 10 or less and enjoy the hunt. The Equinox 600 also has an adjustable reference threshold tone volume control.

I think the Simplex has adjustable threshold volume too.........I can't remember if it is just available in All Metal or all search modes.

Vanquish and Equinox being Bluetooth wireless capable and not just proprietary is a big advantage for the Vanquish in my opinion since I can use any compatible Bluetooth audio ear bud/headphones I choose.

Minelab 3 year warranty wins.

Jeff

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Jeff.  Good feedback.  Here are some responses to some of your specific points.

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Vanquish 540 has 19 possible auto noise cancel frequency shifts on start up.

You are right, I'll update the tables and scores accordingly.

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Vanquish actually has 5 search modes since it has Beach capabilities built in. Minelab calls it "Beach Advantage" in the Vanquish brochure and it is automatic.  So it is not beach capable just because it is multi frequency. It has some sort of salt balance built in from my understanding.

That's not documented at all in the user manual.  The user manual claims 3 modes plus a custom slot.  I'm sticking with that.

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Vanquish and Apex do not need audio plug adapters. Simplex does need an adapter cable (if you buy the version with wireless headphones it is not included.)

This is a double edged sword.  The reason they don't need adapters is because the enclosures are not watertight.  Make the Apex watertight and you will likely see Garrett's waterproof connector jack like that used on the AT series and ATX. Similarly, Vanquish would have to use its funky recessed 1/8" screw in jack, though it can accommodate a normal 1/8" plug.  I consider that a wash.

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

For my style of coin and jewelry hunting having 5 tones really makes looking at the display a minor occurrence.  The Simplex having only 3 tones max for coin and jewelry makes looking at the display for target identification much more important. I think the Apex and Vanquish should receive extra consideration for having more tones and that the Simplex should receive extra consideration for having VCO audio. So maybe make it two separate categories. 

I wrestled with this one a lot,  This one comes down to personal preference and being primarily a relic hunter like the VCO audio of the relic mode on Simplex.  I think this is really almost a tie across the board except for Equinox, which is superior due to all the tone options.  Feelnfree to make it an additional category but in the end it doesn't really sway the outcome much.

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Vanquish batteries: 4 supplied rechargeables = 8 hours, alkaline or other non rechargeable =11 hours. This is subjective but having an ease of changing batteries whether one is using rechargeable or being a slob and using throw-aways is debatable. Not giving Vanquish any consideration for this flexibility is a question......

Again, a debateable personal preference. I think it overly influenced the poor enclosure design of Vanquish because of the need to provide for the AA comparment, further limiting the opportunity for a watertight enclosure to enable periodic battery replacement and charging.  I don't consider it a flexible asset but frankly a retro liability.

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

The Equinox 600 has 25 levels of iron audio adjustments in discrimination mode. I often use a default search mode, accept everything except -8 and -9 for ground mineralization noise and turn my iron audio down to 10 or less and enjoy the hunt. The Equinox 600 also has an adjustable reference threshold tone volume control.

You are correct.  My point here is that you have to turn disc off in the iron range to hear the iron, not sure if that is the case with Apex (i.e., you can only hear it in zero mode).  Fundamentally, ML applies iron disc on Vanquish and Equinox like a notch on other detectors.  I thought of the Equinox threshold feature (and ferrous blanking) after the fact.  Simplex has adjustable threshold only in AM mode.  Good point.

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Vanquish and Equinox being Bluetooth wireless capable and not just proprietary is a big advantage for the Vanquish in my opinion since I can use any compatible Bluetooth audio ear bud/headphones I choose.

I like BT better too, but the fact is that APTX LL support appears to be shrinking or stagnant rather than growing in popularity.  I am concerned about the viability of the standard in the future which might limit BT APTX LL headset choices and APTX LL is the only BT protocol that really has minimal latency suitablefor detecting.

I just decided to keep it simple and score it a tie across the board since they all support wireless audio.

5 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Minelab 3 year warranty wins.

Yep.  Forgot to include this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Minelab Vaquish promises to

FIND MORE, FASTER
Revolutionary Multi-IQ delivers speed, depth and precise identification of all metals across all soils

MORE TREASURE, LESS TRASH
Iron Bias control gives you maximum results, so you can hunt out treasure hiding amongst trash.

TURN ON AND GO
In seconds VANQUISH auto-selects the best settings for your soil — no need to choose frequencies or ground balance.

AUDIO CONTROL
Automatic noise canceling, lag-free audio response and 10 volume settings put you in control.

PACK AND CARRY
1.3 kg (2.8 lbs) light with a unique collapsible
snap-lock system makes it easy to pack and go.

MULTI-IQ — all metals, all soils, all the time

  • BEACH ADVANTAGE — maximum beach performance (340/440/540)
  • PINPOINTING — extreme precision (440/540)
  • 8″, 10″ & 12″ COIL OPTIONS — highly adaptable and waterproof
  • WIRELESS HEADPHONES — enhanced comfort (540*)
  • IRON BIAS — more treasure, less trash (540)
  • RED LED BACKLIGHT — low-light vision (540)

This if from Serious Detecting's description for the Vanquish which is straight from Minelab

The brochure PDF is attached.

I do not think that Minelab did a very good job of promoting the noise canceling, automatic ground balancing or beach capabilities of the Vanquish at all in their skimpy manual. 

Jeff

4907-1017-1 Vanquish Brochure_Foldable.pdf

Adjustments.plist.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Chase for considering my small pebble throws. I have used a Vanquish 340, 440 and a Makro Kruzer at saltwater beaches. Whatever Minelab means by Beach Advantage I can tell you it definitely worked better than the Kruzer and the Kruzer did very well. The Vanquish is not quite up to the Equinox level but it is really good in saltwater shallow surf, tidal pools, and wet beaches.

If the Apex can come anywhere near the Vanquish in saltwater and moderate to high mineralization, Garrett will have really achieved something great. I wish the Vanquish came in a nice control box/arm cuff package like the Apex and Simplex. I really like the shaft system on the Vanquish however.

I still disagree on the Equinox iron audio. I still hear plenty of iron responses with -9 and -8 rejected and every other target ID accepted with the iron audio turned down. No need to use the all metal button. 

thanks,

Jeff

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, phrunt said:

Minelab underestimated the competition with the Vanquish, they were targeting the Ace and had a detector that would destroy it in performance and specifications.  They even made it look like an Ace when in reality they didn't need to at all, they gave it that shape to be familiar to Ace users.  It's one tiny PCB inside a big housing 🙂

653658377_VanquishPCB.jpg.bf713c196111cc1f6ef91285945266e4.jpg

 

Yes the only thing I do not like on the Vanquish is the 4AAs power system. A li/ion integrated battery would have been lighter , more reliable with a much more compact control box. Actually I am wondering if the Vanquish USB port could not be used for powering the Vanquish so that the AA batteries could be replaced with a li/ion powerbank .. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Thanks Chase for considering my small pebble throws. I have used a Vanquish 340, 440 and a Makro Kruzer at saltwater beaches. Whatever Minelab means by Beach Advantage I can tell you it definitely worked better than the Kruzer and the Kruzer did very well. The Vanquish is not quite up to the Equinox level but it is really good in saltwater shallow surf, tidal pools, and wet beaches.

If the Apex can come anywhere near the Vanquish in saltwater and moderate to high mineralization, Garrett will have really achieved something great. I wish the Vanquish came in a nice control box/arm cuff package like the Apex and Simplex. I really like the shaft system on the Vanquish however.

I still disagree on the Equinox iron audio. I still hear plenty of iron responses with -9 and -8 rejected and every other target ID accepted with the iron audio turned down. No need to use the all metal button. 

thanks,

Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for taking the time to scrutinize the list.  Regarding iron audio, I just decided to make them all a tie.  Without knowing how Garrett is implementing it, I don't yet know if it will be superior or not.  The disc thing hinges on ML and Garrett differ in applying actual iron discrimination.  I still maintain, ML disc is just an audio notch, especially the way the mixed-ferrous tones are clipped when it is applied.  Disc on the Garrett and Deus/Orx is applied differently and can actually affect non-ferrous audio and visual target ID averaging depending on the disc level.  It's complicated but just decided to grade based on having some level of iron volume. (Yes/No = Tie).

As far as beach advantage - from what I can tell that is just all marketing.  It is what you get with Multi IQ and ML applied a MIQ profile that behaved well with beaches for all modes, so it is not an additional MultiIQ mode or an additional Search Mode based on the manual description.  In fact, the word beach is mentioned only once in the entire Vanquish manual and that is in relation to coin mode.  Absent any real factual information from ML, I am keeping the modes scores as is.

I am updating the spreadsheets and will repost once I have them recaptured in image form.  Incorporating your comments brings the numbers closer and basically puts Apex and Vanquish in a virtual tie, but they are all within a few points of each other, as I expected.  Which really just solidifies the original conclusion - the choice is up to the end user depending on which features they value most, no one of these detectors stands out as significantly better than the others.  No surprise.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Teknetics Patriot, same machine as the Fisher F70, $399. Unlike the machines above, there are at least 26 coil options available for this machine. All F70 coils from Fisher, NEL, Cors, and Detech will work on the Patriot.

The F70 was a very under appreciated machine, the equal of the F75 in most respects but always overshadowed by its more expensive sibling. See what Dave Johnson says at this link.

The Patriot, which came out as one of First Texas's new (at the time) lower priced rebranding models, has the 7"x11" DD option (as shown in the above picture) compared to the 7"x10" concentric which was(/is still?) the stock coil on the F70.  It's interesting to read Dave J's comments in light of the fact that companies try to avoid undercutting their higher priced models.  Dave calls it like he sees it. 

Sometimes when we buy the lower priced models we wonder what we've missed.  And sometimes we pay more and then realize we would have been just as happy saving our $ and settled for the nearly-as-good model.  I've done both.  I bought the Fisher F75 Ltd black model with its boost and cache processes (also includes the 5" round DD).  I rarely ever use those.  (Note:  many people do prefer the boost process over the default process.)  The Patriot at half the price would have done just fine (and I like the colorful decoration!).  FT has since come out with the F75+ (currently $650 including their state-of-the-art F-pulse PI pinpointer) which is basically the performance of the Ltd without the added 5" round DD coil.  But still, the Patriot at $399 (add the pinpointer for another $120) is a better buy.  (Note:  The near-lookalike Teknetics T2 family, although with completely different circuitry, has similar performance to the F75 family at a somewhat lower price, but still not close to the Patriot's price.)

Bottom line:  although the T2 & F75 families are getting long-in-the-tooth and are being one-upped by competition in performance, no one has yet beat their ergonomics and they still work well.  I agree that the Patriot is a good under $500 option (and it even meets Steve's under $400 category) but it's probably not the best choice anymore.  None of this disagrees with Steve's evaluation, BTW.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

the 7"x10" concentric which was(/is still?) the stock coil on the F70

The F70 originally was stock with the concentric but near the end was also offered with the DD coil as stock. The F70 has been discontinued, but can still be found at some dealers. I just found one with the concentric option for $449. The concentric is far better at handling bottle caps and EMI, but the larger DD will get better depth, especially in bad ground.

The T2 at $499 is a good detector, but lacking the Boost mode and other tweaks of the T2+/F75+ I’m not sure it would offer any better performance than the F70/Patriot. Perhaps even less. The original T2 and F75 are the oldest designs, followed by the F70, and then later the T2 Ltd and F75 Ltd, which as Dave explains incorporated the improvements quietly implemented in the F70. He goes so far as to say a F70 owner would not benefit from an upgrade to the F75, which makes me wonder if Boost is just the default operating mode for the F70 (especially with the SL option engaged), then added to the older models as an extra mode so they could catch up to and not be outperformed by the less expensive model. Many who have used both say the F70 performs as well as the more expensive models, confirming Dave’s statement. Food for thought, and not impossible for a company as convoluted as First Texas.

A tidbit for those who are really into ferrous versus non-ferrous detecting employing tone id. The tone breaks on the T2, F70/Patriot, and F75 are preset and cannot be adjusted. Choosing any preset tone option sets an overly aggressive ferrous/non-ferrous tone break. One of the sole reasons I prefer the $449 F19 or $399 Time Ranger Pro (same detectors, different coils), is the ability to adjust the tone break position while hunting in dual tones.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/25/2020 at 7:49 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

What do you think? Here are my top three contenders.

Garrett Ace Apex $425

Minelab Vanquish 540 $369

Nokta/Makro Simplex+ $254

i agree with the picks, although extensive field testing will be required
for the apex  to claim the top spot,however,i do feel confidant that given time, this detector
will be an outstanding "coin sniper!"

(h.h.!)

j.t.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...