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9” HF Round Versus 5” X 9” Elliptical


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I have used the ORX and Deus with both HF coils for gold prospecting and other detecting tasks too. Even though the ORX has less information on its big screen in the Gold Modes especially the XY Graph, I do prefer the ORX over the Deus for prospecting for other reasons. That being said, personally I only have an ORX for backpacking, for its two excellent almost "all metal modes"and for its Coin Fast mode which does well in moderate mineralization. In bad mineralization it would not be my first choice. I would much prefer the Equinox for bad mineralization over any other VLF made today. 

I measure the gold I've found in ounces not in tons like Steve. I have seen a couple of Australian gold prospecting videos from a couple of "famous" prospectors. They were running the Equinox in the Gold modes with ground balance tracking ON and were having a really hard time locating the small gold targets after detecting them. Ground balance tracking ON looking for sub gram gold is not a good idea no matter what Minelab says and lets me know that the people making those Deus/ORX/Equinox/Gold Monster comparison videos either had no clue or did it on purpose.

 

Jeff

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  • 3 months later...

I use both coils for iron laced sites,  Prefer 9” HF coil over the elliptical for most hunting conditions. These are terrific coils for relic hunting, I’m after thinner worn seated/bust coins and mainly stay with higher KHz.  Sometimes,  lower KHz may miss worn silver especially deeper 1/2 dimes so with the 9” HF I’ll run 54KHz.
 

Occasionally,  Switch to the elliptical HF if time allows and that’s after using the 9”HF.  Both do a good job, Somehow the elliptical has survived hasn’t hit the classifies. 
 

After reading several of these responses from the others,  I tend to agree 9”HF coil works well.

 

Paul

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  • 4 months later...

I have the 11" X35 coil for my XP Deus and was thinking about adding a 9" coil. I'm pretty much a coin hunter wasn't sure if it would be better to have the 9" X35 or the HF 5"x9" Elliptical Coil. If it helps I also live in Ohio.... Thanks for any advice...

Mike K 

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I've had every size coil XP makes from the 11 x 13 X35 down to the 5 x 9.5 HF. I don't primarily coin hunt but I do occasionally make it to the local parks. IMO if you really want to get another coil and you only coin hunt I would go with the 9" X35. X35 coils are better suited for coin hunting because you have more usable frequencies at your disposal. The HF coils have 1 really good frequency for coin hunting at 14 KHz the other frequencies are going to be better for small jewelry. The only advantage I can see with going for the HF elliptical coil would be if you're hunting extremely trashy sites and need the separation.

For me the Deus is a relic/ghost town hunter first and a gold hunter second. I'm down to 2 coils for the Deus. They are the 9" round HF and the 9" elliptical HF. For me these coils make more sense. The HF coils were designed for gold prospecting but have made there way into all sorts of hunting scenarios, most of which they do quite well at. The other thing is that HF coils are really hard to find right now due to supply issues. 

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For mostly coin hunting I agree with Andy, the X-35 9" coil is hard to beat with its added higher frequency, low frequency boost and its ability to have ID normalization on or off depending on your preference and hunting conditions.

The HF 9" coil has more realistic frequencies in my opinion than the HF elliptical if you are mostly a coin hunter. The only reason I can think of (I'm sure there are more since thinking is not my best attribute) to get the elliptical coil if you are not a gold prospector or an extremely thick iron relic hunter, is for hunting in between stubble, underbrush in forests or between rocks........ Otherwise, having 81 kHz for coin hunting is kind of senseless. 50 kHz for coin hunting on the HF 9" coil is already pushing it. Plus, the up averaging of low and mid conductor VDIs on the HF coils without ID normalization can be a challenge if you are used to having numbers and tone pitches for IDs. I really wish XP would make an X-35 elliptical coil with the same frequencies as the other XP-35 coils........come on XP give us what we want!!!!

Personally, I have the 9" X-35 and the 9" HF round coils. Those 9" coils seem to me to be the most balanced ergonomically for the Deus/Orx platform and they both have outstanding target separation.

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First of all, what are you looking for that you are not getting out of (or think you are not getting out of) the 11" coil?  Examples include:  more depth, more swing coverage, target separation, ability to detect micro targets (all types), ability to detect small natural gold, ability to focus on high vs. low conductors and vice versa, ability to swing in constrained places, reduced weight/better balance, versatility, performance in mineralized ground.   Since meeting all the constraints in single coil is difficult, your choice depends on balancing out these attributes to choice the compromise coil to get the performance you desire or need.

The coil parameters that affect these attributes are:

Diameter or cross-sectional area -

  Depth - greater diameter (or coil width in the case of the elliptical DD) generally improves depth.  Your 11" coil should already be giving you maximum depth for most targets, especially high conductive coins since it can be operated down to less than 4 khz (more on that later).  The caveat is a larger coil tends to be less sensitive to micro targets and since it "sees" more ground, can be adversely affected by ground noise which cannot be completely eliminated by ground balancing alone.  In that case, you may have to increase the reactivity setting, lower sensitivity, or change coil frequency - all these things can limit depth to the point that you might be better off with a smaller coil.  So if you are working a lot of mineralized ground, the 9" round x35 and the 9.5 inch elliptical may be better choices under certain circumstances. Speaking of the 9.5 inch elliptical, it's 5" width limits its ultimate depth considerably vs. the 11" coil, but it still gets decent depth for it's size.

  Swing Coverage - This one is pretty straight forward the bigger the diameter or length of the coil, the better your swing coverage.  The 11" is pretty good.  The 13x11 has better coverage but is overweight for the standard XP rod and stem system and makes it really unbalanced, and with little additional depth advantage - I would stay away from it.  

  Target Separation/Tight Spots - obviously the smaller width coils provide advantages with respect to ability to swing side-to-side in tight spots and may have a slight advantage in separation due to less targets under the footprint of the coils, but for a DD configuration, the sweet spot is the center spine of the coil and that is basically the same for all the XP coils.  Separation is mainly a function of recovery speed (reactivity parameter) rather than DD coil dimensions.  But in high target density situations, having a smaller width coil can be an advantage.

  Weight - obviously coils with smaller footprints with all other things being equal (materials used, solid or open coil design, etc.) are generally lighter.  Not rocket science.

Coil Frequency  - 

  x35 coils are able to operate in roughly 5 frequency ranges:  4 khz, 8 khz, 12 khz, 18 khz, 25 khz

 HF (white coils) are able to operate in 3 frequency ranges:  14 khz, 28 khz, and either ~53 khz (9" round) or 73 khz (9.5" elliptical).

From this we can see the x35 coils have the most versatile frequency range from < 4 khz for max high conductor/large target depth to >25 khz for great mid-conductor performance for small targets, small jewelry, nickels, gold, and brass and lead relics.

The HF coils have a decent all around frequency at 13 - 14 khz for high conductive coin shooting (but not at max possible depth) and good mid-conductor performance similar to the 25 khz setting of the x35 coils.  Finally the very high frequency settings of the HF coils are good for micro targets and small natural gold at shallow depths (higher frequency magnetic fields do not penetrate as far into the ground as lower frequency fields).

So, the elliptical coil would provide the most significant performance difference from what you have now but only with respect to ability to swing in constrained spaces, weight, and perhaps better performance in mineralized ground or high target density sites.  That is a lot to pay for that capability, but if you need it, you need it.  You have the best coil now for coverage and depth.  I like the 9" coils for middle of the road performance.  If I could only have one XP coil for coin shooting, it would probably be the 9" X35 as the others have recommended.  But for you, I am not sure it is worth the trip if you already own the 11" x35 because of the expense of the XP coils and the similarity in performance - you would only be getting an improvement in weight and perhaps a better coil for hot dirt and high target density situations - that's why I would recommend the elliptical if you really feel you need an additional coil, for those reasons.

I obtained my 9" HF coil a couple years before the X35's became available and it is my favorite coil.  Given the choice today, I would probably select the 9" X35 over the HF.  I own a 9" legacy LF coil (the coil that originally came with my Deus), the 9" HF, the 5x9.5" elliptical, and the 11" x35.  HTH

 

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I appreciate everyone taking some time to help me out. I like the 11" X35 but some of the places I hunt have thick with iron and I was thinking reducing my foot print would be advantageous! A smaller coil just would be nice to have considering sometimes I drive a couple hours to get to some of these sites. From what I've read and seen the larger coils give you a little extra depth but not allot. So I'm not looking for depth just a coil that will benefit me when hunting in an iron infested areas. So from what I have seen from these posts the 9" X35 would be the choice.... Thanks 🙂 

Mike K

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Mike ... it will also depend on where you detect .... if you are in the US ,, on US size coins so I could be a coil 9 "X35 3.7 khz-28khz ,,, if you are from another part world and you are detecting significantly smaller hammerred coins so I would choose a 9 "HF 13khz-58 khz coil ...

These 9 "round coils have a really good 2D and 3D 360 degree separation..and a very good depth ..

5x9.5 "ellipse HF-13khz-80khz is a bit less deep, so it has and less good 3D separation .... but it can excel in 2D separation and as in certain positions of iron and coins in deep separation ..

VID_20210121_113353 (1)_Moment.jpg

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23 hours ago, Mike K said:

So I'm not looking for depth just a coil that will benefit me when hunting in an iron infested areas. So from what I have seen from these posts the 9" X35 would be the choice....

Actually, in that case, the 9.5 x 5 would be my choice, unless you need the lower x35 frequencies.  The extra 2 inches of clearance isn't going to buy you much if the iron is really thick.  FWIW.

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