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More New Generation Coil Questions Than Answers


jasong

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There doesn't seem to be much discussion about all these new coil models being released right on the tails of the GPZ release - Elite, Evolution, Detech... I know a lot of people here are using GPZ's and sold their GPX's, but really no one is saying much in the US on any of the forums at all. And the Elite has been out for enough time now that some people must have quite a bit of experience with them, yet all we hear is "they are great", nothing quantitative though.

So I'm just going to pose some questions here that are driving me a bit crazy:

What exactly is it that makes these coils so much better? And are they really so much better? The very few testing results I've seen have been almost entirely qualitative and that doesn't say very much. I mean...the GPX still works the same and thus the coil is still just a coil. How much better can it actually get after how ever many generations of previous coils we've already seen?

Why were they coincidentally released right after the GPZ? If it was just 1 company I could buy into a simple coincidence...3 companies now...Are they all using different technology to make suddenly superior coils? How is that even possible given the simple makeup of a coil?

If every manufacturer out there already knew how to make much better coils then why didn't we see them before the GPZ came out? What purpose would it serve for all of them to just hold back producing these together when they are in direct competition? Conversely, if they only discovered how to make much better coils after the GPZ came out then that means it only took them a short time to figure out how to make these, so why didn't at least one of them figure it out in the years leading up to the GPZ release if it was such a quick fix?

I'm not saying they aren't better and great. I'm just saying we're being sold things that are saying they are better and great with no real evidence, no real explanation about why they are even different. We know they are heavier and slightly odd sizes...what else? I mean, I don't know a lot about coils but it's not like you can just add a ton of extra windings in and expect greater results - the machine itself is tuned to use coils with specific inductive properties right?

Is anyone brave enough to tear one apart and see whats inside?

I'm going to be buying a NF Evolution because the only way I'll get real testing results done is to do it myself but I don't have money for the other 2. If anyone else has a Coiltek Elite and someone else gets the Detech then I'd like to meet up so we can test all 3 against a normal NF/Coiltek/Detech coil on the same machine. Then also against the GPZ just for general interest purposes. I'll be posting it to my youtube channel if I can make this happen so everyone can see if I'm able to get these rounded up into one place. I'll be in Arizona this winter, let me know if anyone is interested.

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Jasong

  If I sold you the same year car every year would you keep buying it? Now I change the car up to look different than the pass year. This car is better than ever before.

  This new coil is one you can't do without being it can detect small gold better than any in the past. There is one now that is 12 inch and hitting the scales at 40 ounces and it's camo in color. It may be better than another 12 inch coil but I don't know. The only way I'll find out is to buy it. Now I've done what the company wanted and that is put my money out for a new coil. It could be the detector after detector are coils and we all keep spending to find the gold at the end of the rainbow.

Chuck Anders

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What?

 

I think you are saying the new coils are like chasing rainbows but I'm not sure. Have you tested the new ones?

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I think when the ZED came out with its "New Technology" that no one seems to really understand but does work, it caused a new up surge of thinking with the top coil companies and the results have been better and more sensitive coils. Necessity is the mother of invention and we all benefit from these attempts.

No one is going to tell you what`s in each of their models, or how or why it is different only that the manufacturer feels that they have developed something that surpasses previous models.

Any coil that is waterproof, stable and more sensitive will help to find more gold.

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I have the new 14" Elite coil, purchased it in May of this yr. and have done some extensive testing in ground this summer in N. Nevada, the coiltek ads are true, I was able to get 1-2 inches more depth on a 1.3 gram nugget, over using a 15x12 commander minelab coil on same detectors.  We tested a 4000 and a 5000 with the elite and the 15x12 commander on same target at same depth. No actual gold finds yet in the field with the Elite, since I have not hunted many hours with it. They will come when I am able to put the time in. The 14" Elite is pretty heavy for extended use,  I am looking forward to buying at least one smaller Elite coil in the future, hopefully they will build a 8" round, there is an 11" Elite coming out early November.

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Hey MXT Sniper, are you in Arizona by any chance? Would you want to meet up to do some testing with your Elite along with my NF Evolution when I get it?

On 10/6/2015 at 1:44 PM, Rege-PA said:

I think when the ZED came out with its "New Technology" that no one seems to really understand but does work,

Minelab had a bunch of patents I read, then released a bunch of Whitepapers, and also released fairly extensive results of depth testing on a large number of different types of gold. Also some vids with their engineers explaining timings. I don't understand the GPZ exactly, but I do understand it enough to know it makes sense physically.

On 10/6/2015 at 1:44 PM, Rege-PA said:

 

No one is going to tell you what`s in each of their models, or how or why it is different only that the manufacturer feels that they have developed something that surpasses previous models.

The problem is that we already have one segment of the industry that relies on the customer trusting arbitary claims with no backing: LRL's. 

Now I'm not equating coils themselves to LRL nonesense. I'm just saying customers should stay aloof and not accept things blindly... If a pattern like that is established then we might find ourselves buying snake oil eventually.

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Hey Jason

I use my Fors Gold exclusively. But my wife uses her gpx 5000 with the new camo coiltek elite. She has had it since march/april. I know she used the coiltek 14x9 mono goldstalker at our different sites with much success. But after getting the camo coiltek she has had even more success at the same places. Seems you can run the gpx in sens. Xtra at most places instead of fine gold. It is suppose to have less emi also. It does seem to run quieter with little emi compared to other coils. I had a couple chances to detect with it myself and I could not believe how deep that you can find small stuff. I was finding birdshot with it. And the signals come thru clear and not a slight variation in the threshold. One day I forgot my fors gold batteries I had a chance to detect with the coiltek for a few hours. It is slightly heavier but I swung it all day without any fatigue. I never wear the harness so it cant be too heavy. Im not sure how it compares to gpz or new nugget finder evolution. I thought one day I would get Steve over here and test the gpz and gpx with coiltek elite together and see what the differences are on undug targets. Im curious myself. Thats if my wife gives her gpx up for the day.

Good luck

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I had read somewhere that the only difference in the new coils (Elite & Evo) was a new type of "flat" litz wire? They are still wound as monos with no wildly new windings etc.

It does seem, in Australia at least, that people are finding small gold deeper with them? At the moment I haven't purchased one - my old coils still work ok!

There was one report on the Aussie 4umer forum from Western Australia where sone GPZ targets were tested with from memory a GPX4500 with Elite coil. The 4500 didn't pick most of them up so while I think theres some definite improvements in their sensitivity I am not convinced on the claims that by buying one & sticking it on your GPX it all but brings you up to a GPZ.

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I think the quality of wire and the accuracy of the winding to the particular freuquency of individual machines has a lot to do with it .

It would be great if they printed the amount of windings each coil has and it's compatibility with each make of detector and in turn detectors stipulat their freuquency range and how many windings are optimal per coil size, as it stands we maybe buying coils that perhaps may have one or two windings more or less , therefore altering the optimum " Q" ( I think that's the term for it).

Also I think they might be moving away from the standard flat and rope style windings using circuit style PCBs. It would be great to X-ray a few of them. Snake and bushfire season is upon us here down under, be safe people, happy hunting . Chris.

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Just call me a skeptic when it comes to coils and the never ending parade of "new improved with super duper wire" or other marketing claims.

I watched at Moore Creek while with first the GP series and then the GPX series while every year like clockwork a new super duper coil became the rage. Lots of people showed up with the coil of the year. Then the next year it was a new super duper coil, and last years winding wonder was forgotten.

I am not singling any particular company or coil out but in general I think it is marketing bs. For me it boils down to DD or mono, the general size and shape I desire for my given task, combined with weight and build quality.

I don't believe any coil will turn a GPX into a GPZ. There is that little matter of the electronics in the box and what it does.

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