Fors Gold+ Coming Soon

[beardog]

A small voltage system does not require the same wire gauge as a large voltage system.

 

For instance, I could wire my house to 12 volt using a smaller wire size than if I wired my house to 110 volt. This would reduce cost and provide for a more proprietary electric system.

 

I would not plug a 220 electric motor into a 110 outlet, it would cause heating and a hazard.

 

Would you prefer more volts and higher wire gauge or less volts and lighter wire gauge?

 

The end result of higher volts is, more power.

 

It's like supplying water to a source thru piping. If that source requires X amount of water over X amount of time would you rather have a straw or would you rather use a garden hose? If that source was a large tank that needed X amount of time to be filled, you would have to match the pipe size to the time required to fill the tank.

 

So it is with volts thru wires, the amount of supplied power to the end user - the coil.

[bado1]

I know very little about electronics but from what I know about detectors (or what I understand, anyway) is that they have regulators. So, no matter what voltage battery you put in the processor and coil are always regulated to the same amount.(?)

 

Dean

[jasong]

Thinking battery voltage = more powerful machine is wrong on quite a few different levels, some require a decent knowledge of electronics to understand, but here are a few of the more basic ones:

 

The internal electronics themselves step up or down the voltage as needed. The pulses on PI machines are often in the hundreds of volts despite having low voltage battery sources. Its far more complex - and just wrong - to related the "power" of a detector to it's battery source voltage because those voltages are usually changed anyways inside the machine. Again, the ML pulse machines are using 7.4v batteries, which is on the low end of the detector spectrum yet they are undoubtably the most powerful detectors on the market.

 

Also, in VLF's, the coil doesn't see a DC voltage at all, the battery power is used to do things like drive voltage controlled oscillators that create oscillating waveforms - aka VLF frequencies. The PP voltage of those waveforms need not have a direct relation to the source battery voltage and are usually completely different than the battery voltage anyways.

 

All this aside, P = I*V (you are ignoring the I part) and AA and 9v batteries are current limited by their internal resistances to fairly small values anyways. So the previous two points aside, it's common to have batteries of higher voltages that have less overall power capacity. I haven't done the calculations but I bet you'd find a 9v battery only has about as much energy as maybe two 1.5v batteries. Also consider different chemical makeups, a 1.5v Nicad has far less energy than a 1.5v LiPo despite being the same voltage.

 

Or, think about a static shock, its probably tens or hundreds of thousands of volts but the amount of current is negligible and the total power dissapation is also negligible.

 

Anyways, it's a Nokta thread on their new machine, not a thread on battery voltage so I won't comment any further on this. Just wanted to point out that this is not a valid criticism for any detector, be it a Nokta VLF or ML PI machine. The main thing to discern from source batteries is how much capacity they have and how efficiently the machine uses that capacity (aka battery life). And as mentioned already it seems like the Gold and the Core are using it pretty efficiently.

[Dingo Qld]

Will the OLD Nokta Fors Gold Pro-Package COILS on (15 kHz) work on this NEW Nokta Fors Gold Plus on (19 kHz) or aren't they compatible swaping coils from one to the other viser verser etc?

[Dingo Qld]

Dear Valued Members:

We are proud to announce that the new FORS GOLD + is available for pre-order now including a FREE 5'' DD coil. 

Built on the famous FORS platform, the FORS Gold+ offers advanced gold prospecting capabilities. Operating at 19kHz frequency, the FORS Gold+ features a new advanced All Metal Mode with iSAT (Intelligent Self-Adjusting Threshold) and 2 discrimination modes (Fast & Boost) all designed for harsh ground conditions. The two included waterproof Double-D search coils make the FORS Gold+ the best choice for prospecting in rivers and streams as well. 

MSRP: $799

PACKAGE CONTENTS

FGP26 Waterproof Search Coil (26 cm x 14 cm (10’’x 5.5’’) DD 

Also includes a FREE FGP13 Waterproof Search Coil 13 cm (5’’) DD

Extra Lower Shaft

Headphones

4 AA Alkaline Batteries

OPTIONAL SEARCH COILS AND ACCESSORIES

FGP26C Waterproof Search Coil (26 cm x 14 cm (10’’x 5.5’’) Concentric

FGP40 Waterproof Search Coil (39.5 cm x 33.7 cm (15.5’’x 13.3’’) DD 

Carrying Bag

Weather -Resistant Cover

AC/Car Charger & 4 AA Rechargeable Batteries

Please also find attached the product brochure.

 

Should you have any questions, please feel free to ask or contact me at dilek@noktadetectors.com

Will the OLD Nokta Fors Gold Pro-Package COILS on (15 kHz) work on this NEW Nokta Fors Gold Plus on (19 kHz) or aren't they compatible swaping coils from one to the other viser verser etc?

[beardog]

Thinking battery voltage = more powerful machine is wrong on quite a few different levels, some require a decent knowledge of electronics to understand, but here are a few of the more basic ones:

 

The internal electronics themselves step up or down the voltage as needed. The pulses on PI machines are often in the hundreds of volts despite having low voltage battery sources. Its far more complex - and just wrong - to related the "power" of a detector to it's battery source voltage because those voltages are usually changed anyways inside the machine. Again, the ML pulse machines are using 7.4v batteries, which is on the low end of the detector spectrum yet they are undoubtably the most powerful detectors on the market.

 

Also, in VLF's, the coil doesn't see a DC voltage at all, the battery power is used to do things like drive voltage controlled oscillators that create oscillating waveforms - aka VLF frequencies. The PP voltage of those waveforms need not have a direct relation to the source battery voltage and are usually completely different than the battery voltage anyways.

 

All this aside, P = I*V (you are ignoring the I part) and AA and 9v batteries are current limited by their internal resistances to fairly small values anyways. So the previous two points aside, it's common to have batteries of higher voltages that have less overall power capacity. I haven't done the calculations but I bet you'd find a 9v battery only has about as much energy as maybe two 1.5v batteries. Also consider different chemical makeups, a 1.5v Nicad has far less energy than a 1.5v LiPo despite being the same voltage.

 

Or, think about a static shock, its probably tens or hundreds of thousands of volts but the amount of current is negligible and the total power dissapation is also negligible.

 

Anyways, it's a Nokta thread on their new machine, not a thread on battery voltage so I won't comment any further on this. Just wanted to point out that this is not a valid criticism for any detector, be it a Nokta VLF or ML PI machine. The main thing to discern from source batteries is how much capacity they have and how efficiently the machine uses that capacity (aka battery life). And as mentioned already it seems like the Gold and the Core are using it pretty efficiently.

Point taken jasong - just trying to understand why one machine is claimed to be so much more powerful than another.

[Steve Herschbach]

Point taken jasong - just trying to understand why one machine is claimed to be so much more powerful than another.

Marketing. You can't sell VLF detectors by claiming "our detectors find gold about as well as any of the others". VLF tech is old stuff these days with no real change in depth of detection and sensitivity for over twenty years now. There have been a few tweaks on the discrimination side but that's about it.

There is more to it than just frequency, but as a rule lower frequency detectors are less sensitive to small targets but have less issues with ground mineralization and hot rocks. Increasing frequency increases sensitivity to tiny stuff while increasing ground issues and sensitivity to hot rocks. Batteries used has no bearing on this issue.

There is not much difference between 15 kHz and 19 kHz so I would expect only a minimal boost in small target sensitivity if any. The FORS are unusually hot machines anyway. The change is probably as much for marketing reasons as an actual performance change to better match up specifications with the Gold Bug Pro, the main competition. The new iSAT control does add a new twist as does the change in stock coil. Notice also the option for a concentric coil - a first on the FORS models. Note also the lack of a three tone discrimination mode, replaced by a two tone mode designed for bad ground.

Under 10 kHz you have the coin machines. 10 - 20 kHz is the realm of the multi-purpose do everything VLF that is hot on gold. Above 20 kHz would be dedicated units very hot on tiny gold. Multi-frequency acts like the lower frequency range for prospecting purposes.

In the 10 - 20 kHz range most popular machines used for prospecting have settled around 14 kHz to 19 kHz. From my perspective at least when comparing for maximum depth and sensitivity they are all about the same. Anyone expecting anything magically different will be disappointed. It is like buying a commuter car. There are bunches of them, all different, but all about the same. They get you from point A to point B. The differences are in the bells and whistles.

That all said I very much like what Nokta has done here. Before the differences between the FORS Gold and FORS CoRe were so minimal that they were basically the same detector. See http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/531-difference-between-nokta-fors-gold-and-fors-core/ for details. The changes make the FORS Gold+ less a multi-purpose detector and more one clearly designed for prospecting. A good move in my opinion.

[Steve Herschbach]

Will the OLD Nokta Fors Gold Pro-Package COILS on (15 kHz) work on this NEW Nokta Fors Gold Plus on (19 kHz) or aren't they compatible swaping coils from one to the other viser verser etc?

Doubtful as they are different part numbers. My experience so far with Nokta and Makro detectors is that they sense which coil is on the detector and will not work at all with ones not designed for the machine. I even suspect the machine operating parameters change to accommodate certain coils.

[beardog]

Marketing. You can't sell VLF detectors by claiming "our detectors find gold about as well as any of the others". VLF tech is old stuff these days with no real change in depth of detection and sensitivity for over twenty years now. There have been a few tweaks on the discrimination side but that's about it.

There is more to it than just frequency, but as a rule lower frequency detectors are less sensitive to small targets but have less issues with ground mineralization and hot rocks. Increasing frequency increases sensitivity to tiny stuff while increasing ground issues and sensitivity to hot rocks. Batteries used has no bearing on this issue.

There is not much difference between 15 kHz and 19 kHz so I would expect only a minimal boost in small target sensitivity if any. The FORS are unusually hot machines anyway. The change is probably as much for marketing reasons as an actual performance change to better match up specifications with the Gold Bug Pro, the main competition. The new iSAT control does add a new twist as does the change in stock coil. Notice also the option for a concentric coil - a first on the FORS models. Note also the lack of a three tone discrimination mode, replaced by a two tone mode designed for bad ground.

Under 10 kHz you have the coin machines. 10 - 20 kHz is the realm of the multi-purpose do everything VLF that is hot on gold. Above 20 kHz would be dedicated units very hot on tiny gold. Multi-frequency acts like the lower frequency range for prospecting purposes.

In the 10 - 20 kHz range most popular machines used for prospecting have settled around 14 kHz to 19 kHz. From my perspective at least when comparing for maximum depth and sensitivity they are all about the same. Anyone expecting anything magically different will be disappointed. It is like buying a commuter car. There are bunches of them, all different, but all about the same. They get you from point A to point B. The differences are in the bells and whistles.

That all said I very much like what Nokta has done here. Before the differences between the FORS Gold and FORS CoRe were so minimal that they were basically the same detector. See http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/531-difference-between-nokta-fors-gold-and-fors-core/ for details. The changes make the FORS Gold+ less a multi-purpose detector and more one clearly designed for prospecting. A good move in my opinion.

Thank YOU Steve! Finally, someone has made it very clear in laymen terms.

 

I have recently switched brands, the process was daunting because of all the hype and my lack of knowledge around how detectors work. Not having the $$$ to lay out for the big OZ machines I struggled to get into a brand that would give me confidence at my level of knowledge.

 

My choice of the GMT was based on what I learned on YOUR site. I am grateful for your generous sharing of info and also your honest and direct evaluation of machines. 

 

If the release of the new Nokta had been a couple months ago, I might be swinging that machine right now but have no regrets about the one I bought. It goes down the road well, now I have learned the tweaks.

 

It's a jungle out there. I'm happy I found a good guide!

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi beardog,

 

The GMT is a good detector, just like a dozen others at least. The trick is to not second guess yourself every time a new VLF model comes out.

 

Now back to the FORS Gold+ which is what the thread is about. I have put up a new page at http://www.detectorprospector.com/gold-prospecting-equipment/nokta-fors-gold-plus-metal-detector.htmon the unit and expect to have one soon to review personally. This looks like a really nice unit. I tend to consider the Fisher Gold Bug Pro a standard by which I compare other mid-frequency machines. In a dual coil package (5" round and 10" x 5.5" DD) the GBP runs $749 new at discount. The FORS Gold+ will probably be sold out the door for $699 or less for the same dual coil package. Considering the FORS Gold+ has a few features the Gold Bug Pro lacks this is a pretty compelling option for the same or less money. The only spec the GBP really beats the FG+ on is weight but the FORS is better balanced so.....?

 

The concentric coil option is also very interesting. Concentrics can add a touch of performance in mild ground and improve ferrous/non-ferrous discrimination. The relic guys might like this machine a lot.