Using Tarsacci’s Salinity Balance To Disc Out Small Foil & Find Small Gold

[Steve Herschbach]

47 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Sometimes having people reveal weak points in an honest and non-bias way can help the machines image not hinder it. 

It’s not even a weak point. It’s just a fact that the salinity range overlaps with the extreme small object / low conductor range. Eliminating some salt signal will also have an impact on some other low conductor signals. It affects all metal detectors that are designed to work in a salt environment, and as such is less a weakness than a shared operating property common to all electromagnetic based metal detectors.

The chart below gets it mostly right. The reality is the tiny ferrous, tiny non-ferrous, and salt range all overlap. They are not discrete, separate ranges, but fully overlap. Instead of “Sm. Nugget” it should say “any weak non-ferrous signal.”

[Chase Goldman]

In fact, pointing these things out in an honest and realistic way (rather than marketing hyperbole) that is consistent with real world physical principles lends huge credibility.  I think when capabilities are demonstrated in a way to prop up capabilities while attempting to downplay or hide the tradeoffs (i.e. marketing) it does tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth (since my background in engineering and detecting experience give me a pretty good marketing BS detector) and does set the "marketeer" up for accusations of contrived or fixed demonstrations or demonstrations that look amazing but have no real world application to detecting (so called, "parlor tricks").  (BTW no specific accusations are being made here.  Just talking in general terms).

Most of us who post on DP are just trying to keep it real (objective) and try to avoid brand bias and subjective or hyped claims.  And most have pretty good BS detectors.  That's why I like hanging out here.

[dewcon4414]

I dont believe ive tried to hype the machine.  Maybe im not great at giving the good, bad and ugly.   Im also not a part of any marketing.... i bought my machine..... no. 28 it took me some time to finally buy in fact.  Anything i say is based on hours of water hunting..... now 18 mos.  Steves been straight forward on his reviews about every machine he posts about....... yes i like that too.  Right now ... this machine will find anything any other water machine will IN THE SALT WATER.  So its not about it not finding micro gold there...... like Steve points out most wont .  Its about the machine dont have that ability..... not even the 7uS AQ thus far.  The high point of this machine is.....it retains a lot of that depth you get on the wet sand in the water as well..... couple of inches of sensitivity down here at least puts it in PI depth range with some advantages of having more tones and a TID screen.   Takes some time to learn how to use it to if the screen is under water.   All and all thou..... i still have other machines for a reason like the Nox.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, dewcon4414 said:

I dont believe ive tried to hype the machine.  Maybe im not great at giving the good, bad and ugly.  

Dew - thought you have always come across pretty objective and even keeled on the MDT.  You obviously like the machine's wet salt depth performance and have given great advice on how to set it up appropriately based on your personal experiences.  You also don't talk about it like it's Harry Potter's magic wand either. 

Like I said, I wasn't referring to any specific individual or even to the MDT.  It is just a fact that whether you are talking about the Equinox, Deus, MDT, or the new Apex (i.e., any machine) you tend to get gushing, cheerleading,  bashing, outrageous claims, biased test setups, and hyperbole (mainly on you tube and other forum sites or facebook). 

I question the motivations of apologists (beyond obvious dealers and hired brand marketeers) and those who can't see beyond their nose that a detector (or brand) can do no wrong or do no right, for that matter.  I know that I don't presently own and never will acquire the single perfect or even best overall detector.  That is not because I don't have the means to acquire that machine, it is because that machine does not now and NEVER will exist.

The key is people need to get what I like to call Detector IQ so they can cut through the BS to make an informed decision as to what detector best suits their needs and from whom they can get unbiased field and test info.  There are only a few people like David above, that I trust to just lay it out there and let you decide for yourself based on objective test setups or field videos.

I also pay attention to people who are open to consider any detector worth its salt in the field who get vehemently attacked by a contingent of detector loyalists for stating their opinion when that opinion is not favorable to the detector or brand and especially if the attacks are full of emotion and devoid of facts or objective information refuting the point of view or request for info.  Yes, presentation matters too and ratcheting up rhetoric and emotion tends to create unnecessary noise.  But a friend of mine used to say that if you ain't catching flak you ain't over the target.

All these things are clues that speak less about what is actually up about a particular detector but what what's up about the people talking about the detector.  Clues about those whose information you can trust and those who you perhaps can't trust so much.  And that is my point.

[dewcon4414]

Thanks Chase .....Ive didnt jumped on the band wagon right off on most machines that i may buy for in the water use.  That a tuff environment out there and if its going to flood, break .... or just not be the best tool for the job i try to know before i drop a lot of money as well.   If no GURU electronically.....  im an operator and base most of my thoughts on how well it works.  I had a lot of conversations and a couple of visits with Ton Dankowski before i bought the machine.  He will tell you as will i its not a machine for everyone or every condition.   Its a lot of money..... but so is the Xcal with mods, repairs, and 1 year warranty as is the CTX.  Ive answered questions from people in PMs....... just ask Clive.  I didnt recommend it to him..... because it may not be waterproof enough for what he needs.... nor is it a PI like the AQ.  Same thing Tom said to me when i was making my decision.   Im no longer a dirt hunter so i try not to respond to those posts much.   However, i used to put in just as many hours doing dirt hunting....... i just love this hobby.  The drama...... not so much.  I dont have the years many do...... only about 25, but i do have a lot of hours.... and because we traveled full time in an RV for many years i got to hunt some interesting spots and conditions...... with some very good hunters.   Things are a changing..... from the beep and dig detectors.......lol, or are they?  I like all this new tech over my head stuff that others have to explain to me ........ glad there are people who can lay it out simply.

[Dave.H]

Hi ,,, to whoever is reading this particular link.......

Im sat here in the UK reading this complete utter dribble,,, laughing,,,,, hopefully with many others!

Do you know .... recent phrases, such as..... "Parlour Tricks".... "Harry's Potters Wand"... "Hypted Claims ".......words/quotes,,, that were never heard of on detecting forums before the Tarsacci was launched.... 

I can remember XP Deus videos promoting the HF Coils,,,, using CD's...... "pop rivets.... and various other things to promote the HF Coil,,,,, but none Of these fabricated words were  ever mentioned! ....... Strange that?

yes,,,, I've promoted the Tarsacci,,,,,,,, which I reckon I'm totally justified to do so, as I've paid my money for the unit,,,(ex Demo),,,, $1200 + UK inport duties +VAT,,,,,, (and no commitments whatsoever,, and not a part of any marketing ),,so yes, if I'm impressed with my purchase, I'm more than happy to share with others! (Isn't that the meaning of a metal detecting forum after all)?

It appears to be, many people here, on the forum seem obsessed with belittling the Tarsacci,,, not sure why,,, from what I can see most ,,, don't even own the machine?????... I don't own a Garrett,,,,, and I never look on the Garrett section on this forum, so why do so many people who don't own a Tarsacci comment on the Tarsacci section of this forum???? Don't understand! Totally beyond my comprehension.

So my friends, to conclude,,,,,, I love my Tarsacci,,, and yes, it appears to do things that previous detectors were unable to,,,,,,, I'm so looking forward to searching with it here in the U.K.,  for many years to come,........after all....... "waving my Harry Potter Magic Wand" surely has to bring me luck!!!😉

"Over & Out" 

Dave.H

[Steve Herschbach]

3 hours ago, Dave.H said:

so why do so many people who don't own a Tarsacci comment on the Tarsacci section of this forum???? Don't understand! Totally beyond my comprehension.

First off, welcome to the forum Dave... your contributions are appreciated! Please don’t take commentary about reviews personally... I doubt any of it was referring to you. I suspect some of it is emotional overflow from Dankowskis, where things are getting all too personal unfortunately.

How can people who do not own the MDT commenting on the forum be beyond comprehension? There is not on any forum I am aware of a requirement that one own the detector or detectors under discussion. That's how people learn about stuff they do not own.... they ask questions. And yes, that's how it goes on the other forums here. Plenty of non-Garrett owners discussing the Apex right now on the Garrett forum, and plenty of Equinox owners unhappy right now about leaky Equinox detectors on that forum.

Rather than obsession with belittling, what I note here is more an attitude of defensiveness about anything that questions the MDT 8000. I'd say well over 98% of the commentary here is positive. I do suspect however some of this negative commentary is reaction to the fur flying over the MDT at the Dankowski forum.

I do agree brand specific forums not be subjected to the “this versus that” discussions talking up one brand at the expense of another, and so do move posts that take that tack to the Metal Detector Advice & Comparisons Forum. Anyone going after other forum members directly... that is not allowed here, period.

As for me I do own an MDT 8000 and even met with Dimitar for some comparative testing, so I guess I’m approved to comment at least.  No complaints from me, just a wish for more tone adjustment options.

[Chase Goldman]

On 8/10/2020 at 3:10 PM, Dave.H said:

waving my Harry Potter Magic Wand" surely has to bring me luck!!!😉

Just to be clear, Dave, I reiterate that I was not referring to any specific individual or detector and I have used that Harry Potter Wand comment to refer to anyone who thinks any one detector can do it all or those who have unrealistic expectations on the performance of any one detector and the find themselves disappointed when it cannot work miracles (I usually am referring to those with Equinoxes who have bought into the marketing hype), which of course no detector can measure up.  

BTW I have an MDT on the way and will see if it can actually “conjure up” some CW relics from some of the nastiest dirt around. 

[dewcon4414]

This should be interesting to see how it does and what you think Chase.   Hard sell machines for some reason and I’m not sure why.... especially for salt water beach hunting.  Maybe price... yet they buy an Xcal or CTX....  repair concerns.... yet I’ve not heard of any and anyone who has one has to agree they are pretty well made.  So I have to assume it’s the Nox option.   In the salt water thou IMO there’s no contest.