Eq 600 5 Khz Crushing Multi On Depth

[Joe D.]

Hey Cap,

You are obviously well into the Knox, and are asking some great questions for all of us still learning it's nuances! Listen well to the pro's here, and keep the adjustments to a minimum! The program's in the Knox are solid, and the majority of the time, they work great!  Sometimes i mess with one of the presets accidentally in bright sunlight, and have to do a reset to get it back to normal! A test garden; or even air testing in the A/C is mostly where i play with the custom stuff! (A/C for now, too hot, and too many mosquitoes to experiment outside!)   But my actual hunting time is rather limited due to family obligations, so i only make limited adjustments in the field!

Now, that is just my opinion!! No reflection on your's! Keep asking questions! I love to hear both them, and the responses!👍👍

[GB_Amateur]

9 hours ago, CaptainCoinSpill said:

The trash that is everywhere are beaver tails, beer caps, and foil but not as bad as the former two.

That sounds like my current park.  Aluminum is potentially everywhere from TID 1 (very small piece of foil) up into the 30's (often an aluminum drink can) but the sweetspot for pulltabs is 14-17, and those (in my case) are everywhere.  I want nickels -- sweetspot 12-13 -- and even there I dig 2 to 3 times as many pulltabs as nickels (mostly the smallest ring-and-beavertails or larger beavertails alone, i.e. missing the ring are the ones that TID as nickels).  My park has been hunted but it seems that at least some of those detectorists were so annoyed with pulltabs that they just decided to ignore nickels, too.  (Good for me!)

Can slaw can't be so easily compartmentalized.  If its shape is assymetric (e.g. long and narrow) then when you position yourself 90 degrees away from your initial hit (I like to call this changing angle of attack) it will give a different TID.  Be aware that coins not oriented horizontally (not parallel to your coil) can also do this, though.  My rule of thumb for nickels is to require half my hits be in the 12-13 and even then ignore if there is a 15 or 10 mixed in.  (Even those loose cuts cost me a coin on occasion.)  However, and this is very important, only make selection cuts after you've located the target and are swinging (small swings are fine) with the target directly under the coil housing's attachment bolt!  TID's won't be as accurate if the target is off-center of the coil.

If crown caps are a problem, adjusting Iron Bias will help.  There has been considerable discussion on this site about Iron Bias, particularly lately.  Personally I don't have problems with crown caps since they aren't prevalent in my parks.  But for some people, especially beach hunters, that's a different story.  You can read more about that on other threads here.

You seem to have experience prior to getting your Eqx 800, so maybe what I say now is already ingrained from your previous experience.  However, others (maybe not as experienced) will read this and although it's been said before, IMO it is worth repeating.  Every detectorist (and it can even vary for an individual detectorist depending upon things like particular site and time allotment) has a tolerance for digging trash.  Think of a linear scale.  At the left end you don't want to miss a single good target so you dig everything, regardless of TID.  On the right end of the scale you are so averse to digging trash that you refuse to dig anything!  (OK, those people don't stick around.  😄)  As you move from left to right, you become more choosy in what you dig so as to avoid digging trash.  But as you move from the left you begin to lose desired items, not many at first, but still some.  Near the right end, almost everything you dig is a desired target, but a lot of your rejects are desirable and you have to accept leaving those.  Each detectorist lands somewhere on that scale.  Yours will be different from mine and mine will be different from ____'s.

There are other tricks to help mentally discriminate besides just TID.  I'm not going to go into those (partly because I'm not so good at them), but from my experience you have to develop those tricks yourself as they are very difficult to explain.  Even when shown on YouTube videos they are confusing in my experience, and of course they are susceptible to the same issues as just discussed with the TID trash avoidance scale.

10 hours ago, CaptainCoinSpill said:

I also get a high tone flash one way on a swing and then nothing when I swing the other way?  Sometimes I’ve went over and over and dug and mostly is it some weird iron.  However, I pulled two wheaties that were 9” or so in the scenario as well.

There you go!  Surface coins are pretty easy, but those typically (definitely exceptions as I've proven many times) are the modern coins -- last 55 years in US (not silver, for example).  The deeper targets are weaker and they often don't give the clean signals.  It's like tuning an AM radio which has a (continuous) frequency adjustment knob.  If the station is close you don't have to be so accurate adjusting the frequency.  It still sounds loud and clear with no interference from other stations.  If it's far away, you have to fiddle a lot more with the knob to get it just right and even then you still hear scratchy noises and even other stations fading in and out.  If you've developed a rigid "got to be a perfectly clean signal before I dig" criteria you would have left those Wheaties in the ground for the less choosy detectorist to later collect.

The best detetors give you a lot of information in their reporting.  They are made for those who train their brain to be the discriminator.  It's like the old saying goes -- they give you enough rope to hang yourself.  Someday when artificial intelligence is incorporated into detectors (it will happen...) this may not be the case, but for many of us that will take much of the fun out, and further make it so easy that every Tom, Dick, and Mary will be out there sweeping up the good targets and there will be nothing left to find.

[CaptainCoinSpill]

52 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

That sounds like my current park.  Aluminum is potentially everywhere from TID 1 (very small piece of foil) up into the 30's (often an aluminum drink can) but the sweetspot for pulltabs is 14-17, and those (in my case) are everywhere.  I want nickels -- sweetspot 12-13 -- and even there I dig 2 to 3 times as many pulltabs as nickels (mostly the smallest ring-and-beavertails or larger beavertails alone, i.e. missing the ring are the ones that TID as nickels).  My park has been hunted but it seems that at least some of those detectorists were so annoyed with pulltabs that they just decided to ignore nickels, too.  (Good for me!)

Can slaw can't be so easily compartmentalized.  If its shape is assymetric (e.g. long and narrow) then when you position yourself 90 degrees away from your initial hit (I like to call this changing angle of attack) it will give a different TID.  Be aware that coins not oriented horizontally (not parallel to your coil) can also do this, though.  My rule of thumb for nickels is to require half my hits be in the 12-13 and even then ignore if there is a 15 or 10 mixed in.  (Even those loose cuts cost me a coin on occasion.)  However, and this is very important, only make selection cuts after you've located the target and are swinging (small swings are fine) with the target directly under the coil housing's attachment bolt!  TID's won't be as accurate if the target is off-center of the coil.

If crown caps are a problem, adjusting Iron Bias will help.  There has been considerable discussion on this site about Iron Bias, particularly lately.  Personally I don't have problems with crown caps since they aren't prevalent in my parks.  But for some people, especially beach hunters, that's a different story.  You can read more about that on other threads here.

You seem to have experience prior to getting your Eqx 800, so maybe what I say now is already ingrained from your previous experience.  However, others (maybe not as experienced) will read this and although it's been said before, IMO it is worth repeating.  Every detectorist (and it can even vary for an individual detectorist depending upon things like particular site and time allotment) has a tolerance for digging trash.  Think of a linear scale.  At the left end you don't want to miss a single good target so you dig everything, regardless of TID.  On the right end of the scale you are so averse to digging trash that you refuse to dig anything!  (OK, those people don't stick around.  😄)  As you move from left to right, you become more choosy in what you dig so as to avoid digging trash.  But as you move from the left you begin to lose desired items, not many at first, but still some.  Near the right end, almost everything you dig is a desired target, but a lot of your rejects are desirable and you have to accept leaving those.  Each detectorist lands somewhere on that scale.  Yours will be different from mine and mine will be different from ____'s.

There are other tricks to help mentally discriminate besides just TID.  I'm not going to go into those (partly because I'm not so good at them), but from my experience you have to develop those tricks yourself as they are very difficult to explain.  Even when shown on YouTube videos they are confusing in my experience, and of course they are susceptible to the same issues as just discussed with the TID trash avoidance scale.

There you go!  Surface coins are pretty easy, but those typically (definitely exceptions as I've proven many times) are the modern coins -- last 55 years in US (not silver, for example).  The deeper targets are weaker and they often don't give the clean signals.  It's like tuning an AM radio which has a (continuous) frequency adjustment knob.  If the station is close you don't have to be so accurate adjusting the frequency.  It still sounds loud and clear with no interference from other stations.  If it's far away, you have to fiddle a lot more with the knob to get it just right and even then you still hear scratchy noises and even other stations fading in and out.  If you've developed a rigid "got to be a perfectly clean signal before I dig" criteria you would have left those Wheaties in the ground for the less choosy detectorist to later collect.

The best detetors give you a lot of information in their reporting.  They are made for those who train their brain to be the discriminator.  It's like the old saying goes -- they give you enough rope to hang yourself.  Someday when artificial intelligence is incorporated into detectors (it will happen...) this may not be the case, but for many of us that will take much of the fun out, and further make it so easy that every Tom, Dick, and Mary will be out there sweeping up the good targets and there will be nothing left to find.

WOW...that’s all I can say to that synopsis! You should seriously consider writing a book, because that is some of the best analysis I’ve read.  I LOVE THIS SITE!  The linear scale regarding the quantity of trash to dig is right on!  I also understand the nuances and the aspects that aren’t explainable when getting proficient with our machines.  With the 705 I knew exactly what was under the coil...I already know what modern clad I have under my coil with the EQ. I did not know about the TID #s changing in relation to the part of the coil.  I do look at the coil as a slice down the middle and that’s my focus...however the changing TID #s off the slice do cause me to come off of certain targets...even after intense interrogation.  I can tell if it’s a deep target by the tone and the other classic signs.  The issue I’m having Is I’ll move to execute a verification Of the target and it’s not there...or it seems to move.  I have to figure out when to dig one way targets and when not too. I assume it’s other trash in the target range when I get jumping goofy #’s...but I feel i waste time trying to figure out if it’s worth digging.  I’ve already gave up on nickels...I feel I need to get off of that mentality but i simply get sick of digging crap...guess I’m on the right end on the scale but that does depend on my location. The am radio Reference is again, a homerun example.  You have me ready to get swinging!  Awesome synopsis GB_PRO😄

[GB_Amateur]

21 minutes ago, CaptainCoinSpill said:

The issue I’m having Is I’ll move to execute a verification Of the target and it’s not there...or it seems to move.  I have to figure out when to dig one way targets and when not too.

Yes, those are the key words.  Lots of people here can tell you what they think you are experiencing, but you'll never know, and you'll never have confidence, until you've experienced it yourself the old fashioned way.  There can be shortcuts to learning to detect but you're probably past much of that with your current experience.  Now you are both the student and the teacher.

Afterthought:  I don't say this to discourage you or anyone from asking questions.  Continue to do that, but keep in mind that not all answers will be correct -- or more accurately -- correct for your style of detecting.  Further, many problems (or observations) can have different causes and therefore different solutions.  Even when someone gives what seems like the perfect answer you should verify for yourself if that helps with the issue you are having.  In the end, another old saying holds well:  "experience is the best teacher."

[CaptainCoinSpill]

Absolutely...you can research till you are blue in the face, but unless you get out and put the time in you will never truly be proficient.  I detect every other day on average... since I work from home.  I learned the 705 after hours and hours of swinging...I’ll do the same with the EQ and then some.  However I must say I’ve never had a multi MHz machine before, so it is a different ball game in many aspects.  I’ll be honest...I thought i would learn it fast. Learning curve is more than I anticipated.  I’m off to hook into a coin spill!  Thanks so much you are awesome!

[GB_Amateur]

12 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Just turn the pinpoint mode on, swing the coil to a point where pinpoint is silent and pump the coil to GB there.

Never heard that one before, but make sense.  I'll have to try it next time out (which may not be for a while since the summer heat and worse -- lack of rainfall for weeks -- are putting a damper on my detecting time).

 

[palzynski]

19 hours ago, CaptainCoinSpill said:

Absolutely...you can research till you are blue in the face, but unless you get out and put the time in you will never truly be proficient.  I detect every other day on average... since I work from home.  I learned the 705 after hours and hours of swinging...I’ll do the same with the EQ and then some.  However I must say I’ve never had a multi MHz machine before, so it is a different ball game in many aspects.  I’ll be honest...I thought i would learn it fast. Learning curve is more than I anticipated.  I’m off to hook into a coin spill!  Thanks so much you are awesome!

Yes the Equinox is a little more complex than other machines like the Xterra , Deus , Tesoros , etc .. Actually it took me one year to master its audio and settings  , although I already had a good experience of the ML multifreqs with my Explorer XS. The Equinox is a little "chatty" it takes time to get used to it … Just my opinion 

On the other hand when you know the machine it is a powerful detector , very sensible on targets of all sizes , big and tiny .  I like the ML multifreqs . For info  at the moment I use a Vanquish 540 which I find as efficient as the Equinox for what I am doing ( coin hunting on mild soils ) , this with a simplified user interface.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CaptainCoinSpill]

On 6/20/2020 at 5:29 PM, palzynski said:

Yes the Equinox is a little more complex than other machines like the Xterra , Deus , Tesoros , etc .. Actually it took me one year to master its audio and settings  , although I already had a good experience of the ML multifreqs with my Explorer XS. The Equinox is a little "chatty" it takes time to get used to it … Just my opinion 

On the other hand when you know the machine it is a powerful detector , very sensible on targets of all sizes , big and tiny .  I like the ML multifreqs . For info  at the moment I use a Vanquish 540 which I find as efficient as the Equinox for what I am doing ( coin hunting on mild soils ) , this with a simplified user interface.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well consider this an update to the original issue and consider it solved.  Once I reset the machine and fine tuned all the settings multi is certainly deeper, vdi #s more stable and accurate, and more decisive when I hone in on a target. I swung for 3 hours earlier and feel I’m finally breaking thru!  I know everytime what coin I’m over and depth 95% of the time.  I’ve learned to raise and lower coil as I attack from each direction as I execute a proper interrogation of the target.  I only have one semi issue that bothers me.  Everytime I start my hunt I dig single #’s, teens, and of course the 20 plus good tones.  I’ve learned to dodge the can slaw and most pull tabs by proper execution of obtaining info on the target.  To the people that say the vdi #s are all over the place blah blah blah all I can say is you haven’t become one with the machine.  I pretty much call every good target as I pinpoint to the point I can pop it with a gasket remover. Now to the possible last issue as referenced just now.  Every target under 20 has been rubbish for me...I keep 12-14 open and have found one freaking nickel..this is after I tighten the disc.  Every half swing in my ground I get 3-5 decent low vdi #s and a third is repeatable to the point I’ll dig. Well...after spending my first hour pulling up trash I tighten my disc up to 20 plus and 12 to13 open only...I simply can’t get anywhere if I’m digging a bunch of crap the whole time.  This happens everytime and yes I consider my location...if I’m on the beach I’m digging it all as well as a top shelf virgin location.  I have quite a conundrum because this scenario unfolds every time I start swinging in my old baseball field and parks in my little town.  Once I get out into the field and the trash thins out I feel a lot better overall and will open it back up....but constant low trash #s cause me to tighten the discrimination.  Early on I feel I’m going against professional protocol closing in the disc. and that makes me sad.  Would most of you pros do the same or continue to dig the many repeatable and small low #s even though they are almost always rubbish?  I don’t know which way to go because I have to get my coil over quality vs a small patch of crap.  I pulled in $5 in clad in a couple of hours and did decent overall...smoked a 9” dime but no oldies even though this baseball field is the same layout as the aerial 1958 map I analyzed earlier.  I can’t believe I haven’t hooked into any oldies here yet even as I dig 6-9” thru out my hunt.  Please advise.

[Joe D.]

Captain, 

  I feel your frustration!🤬, but the junk goes with the territory! Especially with lower conductor's! I dug almost $9 dollars in change today in a 4 hour split hunt, at two different locations! No silver or gold anything today, but I'm happy with my clad count! I'm more or less, on your same level with the Knox, I think!  The low conductors can wear you out digging! But are often the most rewarding! But my hearing just naturally goes to quarters, dimes, (and freaking pennies) for some reason! I have no problem finding those! But nickels are in a tough area (13ish), and gold is all over the map depending on size and depth, etc.. And so is alot of junk! The nuances between them can be a blur!  If i lived in an area that was old enough to have a decent amount of silvers, i think i would clean up! But i take what i can get! Anyway, i digress!

   I would say, dig the lower conductors when you are fresh in a hunt (and the trash)!  When you get frazzled, or worn out, just hit the easy high conductors for awhile to give yourself a break! The clad adds up, and you may get a silver coin, or ring while you are relaxing a bit!

    That's all i got man! The Master's will further try and steer us in the right direction, I'm sure! In the meantime, keep up the good fight! And enjoy the ride!👍👍

(Just some of the trash, sight finds, and coins! I like the cool lead moon guy!)

[palzynski]

9 hours ago, CaptainCoinSpill said:

 Would most of you pros do the same or continue to dig the many repeatable and small low #s even though they are almost always rubbish?  I don’t know which way to go because I have to get my coil over quality vs a small patch of crap.  I pulled in $5 in clad in a couple of hours and did decent overall...smoked a 9” dime but no oldies even though this baseball field is the same layout as the aerial 1958 map I analyzed earlier.  I can’t believe I haven’t hooked into any oldies here yet even as I dig 6-9” thru out my hunt.  Please advise.

Hi captain ,

I entirely agree with Joe's answer , there are valuable targets in the 10-20 range . For example in Europe we have small/very small old coins starting from 1gram weight that are in this 10-20 tid range ... So I never use the notch on my MLs. For info I use the  50 tones mode on the Eq , with this I can easily recognize the aluminium foil with a very low tone (below 10 TID ) .  So most of the time I dig all targets , except those very low conductivity alu foils.

However in some rare situations I only dig medium/high conductors above 20 tid , for example when looking for 1st WW relics , buttons , buckles … which are rather high conductors

Of course on the beach with a lot of trash pulltabs etc it might be different , but I am not a beachcomber , only inland detecting so I will not answer on this  ..

Just to finish an example showing that one must be careful with the notch function. See pic below, in my hand 2 very different targets , a 1st WW  10 grams lead schrappnel a very common rubbish in my area , and a very nice antique 4 grams gold coin ( that I bought in a shop ,not found by myself … ). Actually  those 2 targets have exactly the same TID at 17 ! So if I notch 17 to eliminate the schrappnell rubbish , I will never find this kind of coin because it will be also be eliminated by the notch ...