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If I am  hunting in Lake   Ontario and I get about 15 nickles I usually have  some gold.So I say you  got robbed Steve.And hunting a lake when it is low is a joy.We hunted a lake that was 3feet lower and it made hunting easier and more efficient plus we could go out deeper then before. One time it was dead calm and that was pure joy.Gold, silver   coins,silver  jewelry, plenty of clad and some relics.This was a finger lake.When it comes to  the  Great lakes and ocean  I think OBN and  Clive have hunted both  for members here and they  could comment on  hunting these.Andy Sabich hunted a large lake called Onieda by Syracuse and that was his   first honey hole.He and his friends got 1000's of gold here I heard.I hunted here and got 2 gold in 3  times hunting this fine  white sand on the   west end of that lake.I would like to try Nox and AQ type pulse here because some of the stuff can be  deep. It is a easy 100 mile  drive mostly down the  thruway.That west end of that shallow lake can get some good size waves.

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Steve , 

I do not know how it is on your beaches, but on mine the proportion of round pulltab (the old ones) is maybe 5 or 10% compared to the pulltab in 8 (modern with two holes).

can we assume that you discriminate many who had a double beep signal? since we only see 5 on your photo and many more of the others.

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1 hour ago, vive equinox said:

can we assume that you discriminate many who had a double beep signal? since we only see 5 on your photo and many more of the others.

I did not dig any double beep signals. I would not say I analyzed everything perfectly from every angle, but was only digging targets that appeared to give a clean, single signal. In the denser target areas that was not quite that simple though as the “good” signal was right in the middle of several “not good” signals, so I was picking what sounded like something good out of the middle of a mess. In a couple, cases I got more than one target out of the same dig hole.

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I don’t know how to say any more than I have that I was not intentionally digging anything that I perceived as making a double beep sound. I was not using all metal, I was using tones mode. So no, I would not say the double hole pull tabs made a double beep sound. If they had, I would not have dug them.

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33 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Je ne sais pas plus que moi dire que je ne creusais pas intentionnellement quelque chose que je percevais comme émettant un double bip. Je n'utilisais pas tout le métal, j'utilisais le mode Tones. Donc non, je ne dirais pas que les languettes de traction à double trou émettaient un double bip. S'ils l'avaient fait, je ne les aurais pas creusés.

well I understood that Alexandre said that these pulltab sound double beep 🤔.

more by seeing your ratio pulltab round beaver tail and pulltab 8, I believed it. In Europe round pulltab are rare now.

maybe you or another AQ owner can just try out several AQ settings on these pulltabs to see what we can do?

thanks

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All I can do is report real world results. I am not unhappy with the result and I am not going to try and be that aggressive trying to reject targets. I’d rather be more conservative than overly aggressive in that regard. I think you are discounting the effects of orientation in the ground being such that not everything signals as if it is laying flat on the surface. Not all targets give perfect textbook example signals when buried in the ground. The hair pins I dug did not give a double blip due to their orientation and depth. I would expect no different from tabs. As far as the ratio, I was digging what I believe to be deeper, older targets. Only one nickel is a clean, recent drop. VLF operators have probably skimmed off the shallower, more recent items to some degree.

I would caution against reading too much into any one single report by any one person. It takes time and many reports from many people under a wide range of conditions for a fuller picture to develop.

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12 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Now let's give up a little depth, and use the AQ tones mode with default ATS and Reject settings. I prefer tones because a lot of ferrous will make both high and low tones, and mute lets the high tone through, and fakes me out. Tones will be better on at least some bottle caps at giving a high tone with a low tone edge to it. Lots of ferrous will give solid low tones. If you hate digging coins in the surf, dimes and quarters and clean zinc pennies will give a clean low tone. So will silver rings unfortunately.

Hi Steve

How is it even possible to reject silver [giving a low tone]  and still detect gold [with high tone]?  With tones modes?  

If you don't know maybe someone else?  Seems impossible. 

Thanks Dave

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Dave. In Tone or Mute mode, the reject control sets a “balance” point. This Is a point along a time line, All signals are analyzed by how quickly their signals decay. 

Signals which decay quickly fall on one side of the balance point, signals which persist longer fall on the other side. 

How long signals persist is based on a couple of factors. Chief among them are the conductivity of the target, the magnetic characteristics of the target due to ferrous content and the mass of the target.

In tone, the AQ gives a high tone to those targets on the “left” or short persisting side of the balance point. It gives a high tone to those longer persisting signals which fall on the “right” or long persisting side of the the balance point.

Signals which decay quickly and therefore are assigned a high tone include gold, aluminum, brass, lead - but only until their mass becomes so large that the signal persists beyond the balance point - in that case they fall “beyond” the balance point and would give a low tone.

A big piece of aluminum will give a long persisting signal, as will a piece of silver or a nail. In the first case, because of its mass, the second because of its conductivity and the third because is is a significant ferrous object.

This is totally different than the operation of a VLF detector which uses phase shift to do discrimination.

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2 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

All I can do is report real world results. I am not unhappy with the result and I am not going to try and be that aggressive trying to reject targets. I’d rather be more conservative than overly aggressive in that regard. I think you are discounting the effects of orientation in the ground being such that not everything signals as if it is laying flat on the surface. Not all targets give perfect textbook example signals when buried in the ground. The hair pins I dug dig not give a double blip due to their orientation and depth. I would expect no different from tabs. As far as the ratio, I was digging what I believe to be deeper, older targets. Only one nickel is a clean, recent drop. VLF operators have probably skimmed off the shallower, more recent items to some degree.

I would caution against reading too much into any one single report by any one person. It takes time and many reports from many people under a wide range of conditions for a fuller picture to develop.

Hi Steve , thx for your all infos ..

From your pic I have counted a total of 104 targets including ( 24 ferrous + 10 bottle caps) .

So you only digged around 30% iron targets of the total. So this means 70% potential valuable targets ...I am not a beach specialist but this looks very interesting ...  Looks like the AQ eliminates quite a lot of iron trash...

Of course with a VLF there would have been close to 0% iron targets , but the VLF does not go as deep as the AQ ...

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