Chase Goldman Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/18/2020 at 3:44 PM, phrunt said: I don't need anymore detectors. I mean it this time. Uh, yeah. Now that IS funny. [But I agree that Apex probably does not bring anything compelling to the table for you, though the accessory coil situation appears promising] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 22 hours ago, palzynski said: I am quite sure that the Apex will be better than the Equinox in dense iron trash areas . Don't see how this could be without any direct adjustment in recovery speed whatsoever unlike Deus, Orx, Equinox, and mode-based indirect recovery speed adjustment on Vanquish and even Simplex. I have asked Apex early test version users directly and they have confirmed this to be the case. No recovery speed adjustment direct or indirect on Apex. The coil can only help so much in this regard. Separation is primarily a function of recovery speed. Even with the recovery speed adjustments on the Nox, it IS hobbled by the limited coil selection in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palzynski Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said: He said almost as well, not as well. Most everyone agrees to Deus has the edge over the Equinox in dense trash. But the consensus also is that the Equinox comes very close, so I do agree Garrett has some work to do there. With identical coil sizes my bet is on the Equinox for recovery over Apex, but stock coil to stock coil, Apex may have a very good chance of surprising people. Sorry you are right I missed the "almost" in JMC's post ... BTW the elliptical Apex 11 X 6in coil is equivalent to a 8,5in round in terms of coil surface , so clearly it should be better in terms of iron masking and also lighter than the Eq 11in stock coil. The answer in a few weeks ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 Surface area is one thing but for recovery I pay extra attention to width. The 6” width is the trick, as long as you don’t get problematic items in the long axis. This may require hitting areas from at least two directions to get decent coverage. If targets are so dense that you can’t get the 10” length sufficiently clear of masking targets, a 6” round will have the edge. I will put a slow recovery detector with a small coil able to isolate a target up against a fast recovery detector with a larger coil that has multiple targets under the coil any day of the week. You don’t have to worry about recovery speed if you get the targets isolated in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palzynski Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said: Don't see how this could be without any direct adjustment in recovery speed whatsoever unlike Deus, Orx, Equinox, and mode-based indirect recovery speed adjustment on Vanquish and even Simplex. I have asked Apex early test version users directly and they have confirmed this to be the case. No recovery speed adjustment direct or indirect on Apex. The coil can only help so much in this regard. Separation is primarily a function of recovery speed. Even with the recovery speed adjustments on the Nox, it IS hobbled by the limited coil selection in this regard. As the Apex design is 2 years newer than the Equinox , perhaps it uses a faster processor than the Equinox , which means faster recovery time in the field. Just a guess ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 40 minutes ago, phrunt said: 2 years ago there were bucket loads faster processors than the Equinox has, I doubt the processor has much to do with it. If it was as simple as a faster processor for the extra $1 in production cost they would have done it 🙂 Precisely! Under specs Garrett lists Apex recovery speed as: Fast Target Separation/Recovery ✔ Garrett lists the AT Max as: Fast Recovery Speed ✔ Looks like they got it covered. The key is having an adjustable recovery speed so you can trade off depth vs. separation as the situation dictates. Deus/Orx/Equinox have that adjustment. That knob is missing on the Apex. Therefore, the manufacturer is going to dictate a middle ground that best balances depth vs. separation for most situations with Apex. Which also means that it likely will not rival the aforementioned machines in extreme iron situations. Simple as that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 Until somebody actually uses an Apex who will genuinely report on it then it’s pure guesswork. One thing is for sure. Garrett positioned this as an Ace, part of its low end range. Don’t believe for one second there is not a reason for that. I would not expect blistering performance. To do so and give it away at a low price is corporate malfeasance, and I don’t think Garrett is that stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Kinsey Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Someone hit me in the head with a Hammer PLEASE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67GTA Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 On 7/19/2020 at 7:56 AM, GB_Amateur said: That's good news for me. I've done pretty well with separation not knowing any special adjustments. Jeff, can you either link to a thread here that discusses how to adjust the Eqx for maximum separation, or create one? Separation is the biggest thing I need in a detector and it's the one thing that would push me to buy an Apex if it turns out to be noticeably better than the Equinox. I even thought about buying an Orx for just that reason -- its separation ability -- but Chase talked me out of it. (😁 Actually he and I discussed through PM and I decided that this improvement alone over the Eqx likely wasn't sufficient to spend that kind of money.) Recovery speed at 6-7. Two tones. Turn sensitivity down to 15-18. Works well in heavy iron. Have to move a little slower because higher recovery speeds make the signals shorter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaryt Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 On 7/18/2020 at 2:24 AM, phrunt said: All they've done is put me off, I wont be getting an Apex. I hate overly excited loud obnoxious people getting all excited about "finding" amazing finds. I've done enough detecting now to know the difference between competing products is often minimal and if they are finding it with their current whizz bang detector they no doubt would have also found it with their previous one too. People who spend the time and put in the effort get the best results, some of these guys seem like they've drank 50 cans of Red Bull, these Red Bullaholics seem to be the people Garrett like to use in their videos. Most of the videos seem like they're made for 5 year olds to watch. excellent point! can't expect them to comment in a negative way when garrett is controlling the purse strings. we will know in time, because the guys in the field laying down hard dollars will tell us so. (h.h.!) j.t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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